Live data from Hacker News

BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

whispersystems.org

41–50 of 53 posts

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#41

This seems like a terrible idea to me. I believe the entire world of open source functions based on intrinsic motivation: people participate because the act of participation itself is enjoyable. This has some flaws (less fun stuff like docs don't get as much love), but unlocks a huge pool of untapped motivation in people. Studies have shown that if you add in even a small amount of extrinsic motivation (i.e. pay peop…

Aren't you paid by Google to work on Dart? Apologies if I have the entirely wrong person. How is that different?

> Aren't you paid by Google to work on Dart?

I am, this is a great question!

> How is that different?

What it means is that working on Dart is my job. It's a great job, and I love it. Like other good jobs, I get lots of both extrinsic and intrinsic reward from it. (In fact, a curious facet of being at Google is that the intrinsic rewards of being at the company feel like they overshadow the extrinsic ones. I'm constantly in this "and you pay me too?!" fugue of astonishment.)

But it also means that working on Dart is work. I do some extra-curricular activities related to it: I've spoken at a couple of conferences. But even then, I'm getting time off from work for free to go there, so in some sense I'm still being compensated.

I spend time answering questions about Dart online outside of work hours, but that's because, through some Hermione-like mental affliction, I will spend time answering questions about anything I know (and several things I don't).

But, aside from that, I actually don't do much of anything Dart-related when I get off work. Dart is what I do 40 hours a week. It's a happy 40 hours, but when I go home, I stop working on it and stop thinking about it.

Would I hack on it until the wee hours if I wasn't getting paid to do it while the sun was up? I don't know.

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#42
As many others in this discussion, I'm not sure whether this will be net positive or not, but I would try it if I could make the payments per merged pull request.

Additionally, I would like to provide bonuses for each checked-off item of

1. Does it have appropriate tests?

2. Is there appropriate documentation?

3. Has it been peer-reviewed and signed off? (Reviewer shares this bonus.)

These are the above-bare-minimum things I would like to encourage in my open source projects. Not everyone has time to go above and beyond when fixing a bug they encountered, but it's more than appreciated when they do.

In fact, maybe the payments should only be for the bonuses, not the merged PR itself.

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#44

I wonder how well this would work tied in to the stack exchange model?

Now HERE is an interesting idea.

That said, I'm not sure what field to try this on. StackOverflow is damn near perfect, IMO, in its current state. There are endless high-quality answers, without rewards.

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#45
post #20

This is very cool, but my initial reaction was "this is amazing" to a misunderstood model of what this is. This is: Create a pool of btc, distribute to those who commit to current round. What I thought this is: Anyone can tip on individual commits that they find useful or of exceptionally high quality, akin to Reddit Gold for code. This way, not all commits are treated equally and great commits can be compensated. To…

Sure, except that tippers (users) are not likely to be in position to judge the quality of a commit, nor really want to wade through hundreds of commits to decide which ones might be worth spending money on, and for the most part, just want to support the development of the project rather than micro-manage it. It's a nice ideal us developers can dream of, but the model implemented BitHub is just easier to use. To use…

Perhaps this would create an incentive for contributors to better explain the significance of their changes in their commit messages. Whether or not this would be a positive effect is up for debate.

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you paid by Google to work on Dart? Apologies if I have the entirely wrong person. How is that different?

> Aren't you paid by Google to work on Dart? I am, this is a great question! > How is that different? What it means is that working on Dart is my job. It's a great job, and I love it. Like other good jobs, I get lots of both extrinsic and intrinsic reward from it. (In fact, a curious facet of being at Google is that the intrinsic rewards of being at the company feel like they overshadow the extrinsic ones. I'm consta…

Thanks this makes total sense.

I've been grappling with this question because I, myself, have been paid to contribute to OSS for the last few years. I think my experience is much more blurry than yours is, at least with work/life separation.

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#47
I've got kind of a complicated picture to paint, so please bear with me...

1) Services can be bought with Bitcoin.

2) Github is awesome, but currently it's a totalitarian regime. Anyone with power can accept a Pull Request. There is no other form of government possible.

The thought occurred to me that for some kinds of projects, it might make sense to encode a form of government into the Source Code Repository / Source Code Review / Account system, itself. And possibly to have the entire thing - government, source code, data, and the running project itself - be self-hosting on a cloud server.

Self-hosting is the critical, and very interesting part to me. You pay your membership dues with BitCoin, and the service pays for its own hosting with BitCoin. And perhaps that's it - no one else has the keys to the BitCoin account, no possibility to profit off the service, it just pays for itself as long as it can, and then shuts down.

You could imagine a direct democracy, of everyone who pays their monthly membership fee. Or perhaps you gain voting privileges once you've been a paying member for 3 months in a row. All kinds of parameters could exist, and a single Community could possibly even modify their own laws, through something like a Constitutional law process. Maybe if the community is really successful, the governing body can start paying people with BitCoin to fix bugs, add features, create new art assets, etc.

There could be separate partitions of government. Like, picture an MMO RPG. Member for 3 months can vote on engine. Member for 12 months can vote on the content of the game itself, like where cities go, how much manna a spell costs, etc. Or maybe you get the right to vote, once you've completed an in-game quest!

As the code is modified, the service waits for all of the unit tests to pass before accepting a code change, waits for the government to approve of the changes, and then does something like restart the server at midnight.

And depending on the licensing, it may be possible for someone else to throw some BitCoin at a new server, and fork the whole Community, picking slightly different Constitutional and legal parameters. Over time, people end up with accounts on systems that have content and laws they like.

I've got a lot more thoughts about such a system, and I hope it comes to exist some day.

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#48

This seems like a terrible idea to me. I believe the entire world of open source functions based on intrinsic motivation: people participate because the act of participation itself is enjoyable. This has some flaws (less fun stuff like docs don't get as much love), but unlocks a huge pool of untapped motivation in people. Studies have shown that if you add in even a small amount of extrinsic motivation (i.e. pay peop…

I agree, and while it's not quite ready for a show HN yet.. I've been working on a quick side-project that allows people to send a 'thank you' to (github) open source committers.

I just completely agree that trying to motivate people who give huge amounts of time with small amounts of cash isn't a great idea. That said, it's good that there's a place for it (gittip etc.) should people want to.

Anyway, if you want to give feedback http://github.com/thankadeveloper/thankadeveloper and http://thankadeveloper.herokuapp.com (in the process of polishing, domain etc.).

I'm not sure if I'll ever really get the culture change in encouraging more "thanks" in the world, but it has been a fun little project getting up to speed on rails4, octokit etc.

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#49

I've got kind of a complicated picture to paint, so please bear with me... 1) Services can be bought with Bitcoin. 2) Github is awesome, but currently it's a totalitarian regime. Anyone with power can accept a Pull Request. There is no other form of government possible. The thought occurred to me that for some kinds of projects, it might make sense to encode a form of government into the Source Code Repository / Sour…

I had the same idea, it's great to know I'm not alone :-) I was imagining an 'enforced' democratic website ie the website runs the live code that any user can submit patches and/or vote on, and no-one has root.

At some point this sort of thing becomes a co-operative business... kind of big for a side project :-/

Anyway I started a python prototype (see my profile), and would love to bounce ideas off you!

Re: BitHub = Bitcoin + GitHub. An experiment in funding privacy OSS

#50
post #20

This is very cool, but my initial reaction was "this is amazing" to a misunderstood model of what this is. This is: Create a pool of btc, distribute to those who commit to current round. What I thought this is: Anyone can tip on individual commits that they find useful or of exceptionally high quality, akin to Reddit Gold for code. This way, not all commits are treated equally and great commits can be compensated. To…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN