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Anatomy of a $40M+ Bitcoin heist

thinkdifferent.ly

41–47 of 47 posts

Re: Anatomy of a $40M+ Bitcoin heist

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing has intrinsic value.

Well, I think living human beings have intrinsic value, at least.

That sounds nice but holds no water. I mean, what sort of monster could not value human life? Please, pay strict attention to what I am saying about what really having "intrinsic value" means.

Re: Anatomy of a $40M+ Bitcoin heist

#42
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing has intrinsic value. I think what you are actually saying is that "intrinsic value" is actually meaningless. If "intrinsic value" is actually a meaningful statement about something (even if you believe that nothing has that quality), then I think we can indeed find things that have it, which disproves your statement in the first place. The first definition of "value" that I found is "the regard that somethi…

>I think what you are actually saying is that "intrinsic value" is actually meaningless. No, I mean exactly what I said. Nothing has intrinsic value, ever. >Therefore I propose a definition of "intrinsic value": something that all entities to whom "value" has meaning universally believe has that quality. For example, oxygen. If I already have many lifetimes' worth of oxygen for my breathing apparatus, I might have no…

> If I already have many lifetimes' worth of oxygen for my breathing apparatus, I might have no interest in and place no value upon your stock of oxygen.

And yet, clearly you value oxygen enough to stock up many lifetime's worth of it - a testament to its intrinsic value.

> Maybe the beings in question are some sort of alien life form that live in volcanos and breathe nitrous oxide.

You have no evidence that such beings exist, however - so this is purely hypothetical.

On giving this more thought, however, perhaps objects or substances are too simple to consider from the perspective of intrinsic value. So how about something completely different, such as wisdom? Does wisdom have intrinsic value?

Those who do not value it are not wise, and are therefore not qualified to judge whether or not it has intrinsic value...

Re: Anatomy of a $40M+ Bitcoin heist

#43
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think what you are actually saying is that "intrinsic value" is actually meaningless. No, I mean exactly what I said. Nothing has intrinsic value, ever. >Therefore I propose a definition of "intrinsic value": something that all entities to whom "value" has meaning universally believe has that quality. For example, oxygen. If I already have many lifetimes' worth of oxygen for my breathing apparatus, I might have no…

> If I already have many lifetimes' worth of oxygen for my breathing apparatus, I might have no interest in and place no value upon your stock of oxygen. And yet, clearly you value oxygen enough to stock up many lifetime's worth of it - a testament to its intrinsic value. > Maybe the beings in question are some sort of alien life form that live in volcanos and breathe nitrous oxide. You have no evidence that such bei…

I stocked up on oxygen in the first place because I had an end—sustaining my own life—and the means for this was, in part, supplying myself with oxygen. Oxygen only ever was considered valuable because of my purposeful human action. It was never valuable "just because" as the concept of "intrinsic value" implies.

You seem to be partially accepting my argument that "intrinsic value" doesn't exist but trying to win by redefining "things having intrinsic value" as "things necessary to sustain human life". Okay, things that humans need to survive are "intrinsically valuable" to that end but that isn't what we're talking about.

Re: Anatomy of a $40M+ Bitcoin heist

#44
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that it's not $150 million of seized assets, it's a bunch of electronic money that could or would at one point potentially sell for approximately $150 million if there were enough buyers for the offered digital product. What does the FBI or other agencies do with intercepted drug money and criminal possessions? Drugs get destroyed, that much I know, but not sure about the other stuff.

Like other seized assets they will get repurposed for other investigations. When the feds seize a boat, car, or home they either sell them or use them for operations, undercover and the like.[0] I imagine the btc will be saved until the case is closed then try to be used for other investigations, I don't think the feds would try converting and selling it. [0] http://www.justice.gov/jmd/afp/02fundreport/02_2.html

Why not convert it and sell it? Spending BTC doesn't destroy any evidence, you'll still have a record of the original BTC to trace. I imagine there is some legal procedure to go through before they can dispose of the assets, but I can't imagine them simply shredding the keys.

Re: Anatomy of a $40M+ Bitcoin heist

#45
post #7

So the '324 is FBI on phone handset' comment, is this the FBI transferring $40M from Silk Road wallets to some other wallet? Or is it something else? Also one wonders what is done with the 'evidence' after the case. I could imagine the FBI simply deleting the wallets but does anyone know their actual policy?

If the FBI deleted the wallets, I could imagine someone privately keeping a copy of the crucial key digits. A nice little retirement nest egg for 30 years time, once this incident has been forgotten. If the bitcoins have been officially deleted, it seems reasonable that the government bureaucracy would then cease to be interested in them.

Re: Anatomy of a $40M+ Bitcoin heist

#46
post #6
post #2

Interesting. What's $40MM in bitcoin? I ask because most of these articles are trying to shock you with the exchange value rather than the BTC value.

How is it any different from "one ton of gold" versus "$40 million in gold"? Surely the latter provides more useful information to the general public?

Gold is generally less volatile, so saying "$40mm in gold" would likely have some lasting significance. But in a month, that $40mm in Bitcoin could be worth $20mm or $60mm or something else entirely. Giving the actual value in BTC would let us know how much exactly.

Re: Anatomy of a $40M+ Bitcoin heist

#47
post #2

Interesting. What's $40MM in bitcoin? I ask because most of these articles are trying to shock you with the exchange value rather than the BTC value.

96000 btc i believe was the figure being thrown around however I also saw 39000 btc at the every early stages and that is much closer to the $40million estimate given in OP.
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