Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

newsweek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 69 posts

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#41

Post by jrs99 »

mhurron wrote: post #18
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #9

Wow, he is nearly totally wrong on every point! :-) "The truth in no online database will replace your daily newspaper, no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works." And to think that we have really only just gotten started.... when I look back a few blinks to 2005 and realize that there wasn't even anything in popular culture known as Youtube... un…

> no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher No, I would say this is still correct. There is a feedback beyond yes/no right/wrong that has not been able to be replicated in automated teaching and training that a competent teacher can provide.

yes. but how many competent teachers are there?

I'm thinking most teachers can be replaced by software while benefiting the student.

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#42

Post by drcube »

mhurron wrote: post #18
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #9

Wow, he is nearly totally wrong on every point! :-) "The truth in no online database will replace your daily newspaper, no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works." And to think that we have really only just gotten started.... when I look back a few blinks to 2005 and realize that there wasn't even anything in popular culture known as Youtube... un…

> no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher No, I would say this is still correct. There is a feedback beyond yes/no right/wrong that has not been able to be replicated in automated teaching and training that a competent teacher can provide.

But certainly, CD-ROMs (or today's equivalent: Khan Academy and MOOCs) can take the place of no teacher?

There is free education to be had today that wasn't available in 1995. It's not better than the face-to-face education we had then or now, but it's quite a bit better than going without any education at all due to location, circumstances or finance.

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#43

Post by [deleted] »

mhurron wrote: post #18
nakedrobot2 wrote: post #9

Wow, he is nearly totally wrong on every point! :-) "The truth in no online database will replace your daily newspaper, no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works." And to think that we have really only just gotten started.... when I look back a few blinks to 2005 and realize that there wasn't even anything in popular culture known as Youtube... un…

> no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher No, I would say this is still correct. There is a feedback beyond yes/no right/wrong that has not been able to be replicated in automated teaching and training that a competent teacher can provide.

[deleted]

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#44

Post by djur »

wehadfun wrote: post #32

Baloney: telecommuting workers - WRONG Baloney: interactive libraries - CORRECT Baloney: multimedia classrooms - CORRECT Baloney:electronic town meetings- CORRECT Baloney:virtual communities - WRONG Baloney:Commerce and business will shift from offices and malls to networks and modems - HALF CREDIT (they both exist) Baloney: freedom of digital networks will make government more democratic - CORRECT (Governemts just c…

That's not a particularly bad hit/miss ratio. The mid-90s were full of a lot of overheated rhetoric about the massive life-changing applications of the Internet. Skepticism like the points above can be broadly grouped into two types of target.

First, you had claims that the Internet would substantially improve civic engagement, government transparency, education, etc. The results are mixed on this end, mostly because a lot of the claims expected people to be more virtuous than they really are -- that people would 'get up and get involved' if they were only given the necessary access.

Second, you had claims that were essentially impossible with the structure of the Internet as it existed. This is an era where Internet access for most people was extremely slow, expensive dial-up service. Other dial-in information services had existed for decades and had not brought about a revolution. Most of the "wrongs" above only really became wrong after the introduction of always-on broadband, WiFi, cheap data plans, and smartphones, none of which were obviously on the way in 1995.

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#45

Post by PhasmaFelis »

nakedrobot2 wrote: post #9

Wow, he is nearly totally wrong on every point! :-) "The truth in no online database will replace your daily newspaper, no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works." And to think that we have really only just gotten started.... when I look back a few blinks to 2005 and realize that there wasn't even anything in popular culture known as Youtube... un…

> Wow, he is nearly totally wrong on every point! :-) "The truth in no online database will replace your daily newspaper, no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works."

Of those three, he was only wrong on the first point.

Archives of facts are very useful, but they do not teach. The internet has changed (and accelerated) the way government delivers talking points to the nation, but it hasn't made anything more egalitarian or democratic.

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#47

Post by m3talsmith »

mjolk wrote: post #10

I hope others don't take too much away from an article that contains the gem: "So how come my local mall does more business in an afternoon than the entire Internet handles in a month?" Human contact is nice and can't be replaced by our current technology. Don't let this one, easy-to-make, statement let the rest of the contrarianism seem correct. Mr. Stroll's vision for the future of the internet was short-sighted an…

I beg to differ: $61 billion gross for 2012 - http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/13/jeff-bezos-believes-aws-cou...

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#48

Post by swswsw »

fiskkastanj wrote: post #29

What do we who are closer to tech than the average person see in the same light now that people in our role saw the web in the early 90's? My 5c goes to Bitmessage, the web (still. Biggest distributed computing platform ever), Bitcoin, drones and 3D-printers. Preferably them all combined. It's not like technical revolutions are uncommon anymore.

Good list. i would agree with you that those 5 items are what to look out for in the near future (the web, Bitcoin, drones and 3D-printers). I would probably add wearable computing to the list as well.

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#49

Post by wehadfun »

notjustanymike wrote: post #16

So I used to work on the Newsweek web ops team. This article gets linked about once a year. Every year the comments are the same. Every year he has to admit he was wrong. LEAVE CLIFFORD STROLL ALONE!

For those that don't know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

Re: Why the Web Won't Be Nirvana (1995)

#50

Post by notjustanymike »

shalmanese wrote: post #37
notjustanymike wrote: post #16

So I used to work on the Newsweek web ops team. This article gets linked about once a year. Every year the comments are the same. Every year he has to admit he was wrong. LEAVE CLIFFORD STROLL ALONE!

Also, get his name right ;).

Well shit.
Post reply on HN