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Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

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Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#41

Post by girvo »

vsviridov wrote: post #13
Estragon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer with a nonviolent communication program at a local prison, and I would guess that sentence would completely shatter her, at least if she was male. Every fellow inmate will identify with her victims and in a male prison they would be vengeful. Not sure how it will work out in a female prison.

Probably. But that's the karmic justice, I guess. What is even more horrible, is that she'll do the time, but all the prosecutors, whose careers she boosted, would walk away from this clean...

Karmic justice? Extralegal justice that I dislike personally. That's like being okay with rape in prisons, cause "they get what they deserve"...

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#42

Post by michaelfeathers »

sigstoat wrote: post #19
jonlucc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good question. I think most cities have one lab. They probably have multiple analysts in the lab, but I think it's still a pretty high percentage of the total cases.

sadly, no, most cities don't have their own tox/drug chemistry lab. there are entire states with just 1 lab. i'm not familiar with massachusetts, but i wouldn't be surprised if most of the relevant testing for the state was going through there.

Another travesty of monoculture.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#43

Post by reginaldjcooper »

girvo wrote: post #41
vsviridov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably. But that's the karmic justice, I guess. What is even more horrible, is that she'll do the time, but all the prosecutors, whose careers she boosted, would walk away from this clean...

Karmic justice? Extralegal justice that I dislike personally. That's like being okay with rape in prisons, cause "they get what they deserve"...

Seriously. There are reasons US prisoners keep going back in and part of it is the focus on punishment instead of rehabilitation. Haven't the US a whole amendment dedicated to not using beatings or shankings as a punishment? I wish more people would reflect on why that was considered a good idea back in the day.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#44

Post by sigstoat »

jfim wrote: post #38
nimble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, 3-5 years sounds pretty reasonable. If you think about it, you should be glad that she didn't get a crazy "send a message" punishment of 20 years or life in prison. She'll never work in that capacity again, so it's not like there's a need to separate her from society for the protection of society. A better question to address is how a single rogue person could do so much damage. This is institutional failur…

> This is institutional failure. Indeed. I wonder how hard it would be to have random testing of the chemists' work.

reputable labs already have every single piece of work looked over, and the process completely repeated for random samples at increasing intervals of time.

and defendants should have their evidence retested by independent labs when possible.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#45

Post by sigstoat »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #37
nimble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, 3-5 years sounds pretty reasonable. If you think about it, you should be glad that she didn't get a crazy "send a message" punishment of 20 years or life in prison. She'll never work in that capacity again, so it's not like there's a need to separate her from society for the protection of society. A better question to address is how a single rogue person could do so much damage. This is institutional failur…

> She'll never work in that capacity again How do you know? Getting rehired is routine for misbehaving cops.

the forensic community is pretty good about these things. the folks who do these things get whispered about like a bogeyman for years. everybody in this woman's field knows about her now, and will be googling up "massachusetts chemist" for the next 20 years whenever they get a female chemist from massachusetts applying for a position.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#47

Post by nrmilstein »

nimble wrote: post #36
vsviridov wrote: post #3

34000 tainted cases is not "messed up big time". It's deliberate and malicious. And she gets 3-5 years? Bullshit.

Actually, 3-5 years sounds pretty reasonable. If you think about it, you should be glad that she didn't get a crazy "send a message" punishment of 20 years or life in prison. She'll never work in that capacity again, so it's not like there's a need to separate her from society for the protection of society. A better question to address is how a single rogue person could do so much damage. This is institutional failur…

I agree. Without knowing much about penology, punishment for the sake of punishment seems overused in the US. Her prison sentence is short relative to all those given out because of her acts, but I think prison sentences in the US are too long to begin with.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#48

Post by ensignavenger »

chimeracoder wrote: post #35

> "It's unsettling and maddening, because you're now going to have a lot of people get released to the street prematurely," says Middlesex County District attorney Gerry Leone, one of many hoping the state supreme court will curb the releases. That's a pretty bad way of looking at this, because it assumes that those people deserved to be behind bars to begin with, and ignores those that didn't. How about, "It's unset…

All suspects a guilty, period. Or else they wouldn't be suspects, now would they?

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#49

Post by scotch_drinker »

chimeracoder wrote: post #35

> "It's unsettling and maddening, because you're now going to have a lot of people get released to the street prematurely," says Middlesex County District attorney Gerry Leone, one of many hoping the state supreme court will curb the releases. That's a pretty bad way of looking at this, because it assumes that those people deserved to be behind bars to begin with, and ignores those that didn't. How about, "It's unset…

At the risk of painting with a very wide brush, DAs aren't incentivized to make sure people get due process. They are incentivized to convict as many people as possible. In multiple cases here in Texas where later DNA evidence overturned rape and murder charges, the DA argued right up until the moment of reversal that they believed totally in the guilt of the accused. They have to, it's their job and to have public doubt in the people they are trying will only result in them looking for a new job pretty quickly.

Not saying it's right, just how it is.

Re: Crime Lab Scandal Leaves Massachusetts Legal System In Turmoil

#50

Post by Taniwha »

ensignavenger wrote: post #48
chimeracoder wrote: post #35

> "It's unsettling and maddening, because you're now going to have a lot of people get released to the street prematurely," says Middlesex County District attorney Gerry Leone, one of many hoping the state supreme court will curb the releases. That's a pretty bad way of looking at this, because it assumes that those people deserved to be behind bars to begin with, and ignores those that didn't. How about, "It's unset…

All suspects a guilty, period. Or else they wouldn't be suspects, now would they?

no, all suspects are innocent until proven guilty - the problem here is that the proving has been done in error so they are still innocent until proven guilty
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