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Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

bbc.co.uk

41–50 of 95 posts

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#41
post #9

Average people get all upset about unions when they see them applied to jobs that don't seem too too demanding. But places like Walmart and Amazon are exactly why unions should exist, to counterbalance the inhumane over-optimization and maltreatment of people. Amazon could probably make work less toxic by hiring 10% more people, but that would make things cost a few cents more.

Hopefully this becomes more and more automated over time and eventually people won't have to do it at all.

Of course, "people won't have to do it all" also implies "the future doesn't need us".

Currently those poor workers are cheaper than the machines that could do the same job. Once the machines become cheaper than a sustenance-wage for a human, there will be literally no jobs for those people, ever.

And than means that either by that time we drastically change our distribution of resources - where 'having a job' is not needed for living; or expect literal class warfare.

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#42
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That number isn't right at all. I just pretended to be a single unemployed female with one child, and they said I was entitled to this: Jobseeker's Allowance (Income based) £71.70 per week Child Tax Credit £62.72 per week Housing Benefit £115.39 per week Child Benefit £20.30 per week Total weekly income £270.11 per week (This excludes the below market rent, $500gbp/month, I claimed to be paying for council housing.)…

It doesn't work like that. As someone who has been unemployed you have to deal with the following: 1. Child tax credit works on your previous year's income so it can take up to a year to get adjusted. Same with child benefit. 2. Housing benefit takes 8-12 weeks to come through. Not only that it won't cover most private rents inside the M25. The council waiting list is 3-5 years in London so you'll have to go into arr…

Try to pay attention. We were discussing the "problem" of people already receiving benefits being compelled to work for those benefits.

While it is a problem that the council allows crackheads into public housing, and there may be problems with government incompetence, this is a somewhat separate discussion. Tangentially, if you want to require drug tests for benefits and kick people out of council housing for antisocial behavior, I have no objection.

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#43

"Desk jockey does manual labor and his feet hurt, story at 11" I worked the graveyard shift as a picker at Amazon back around '00. Back then Amazon was so nervous about anybody introducing a bug in the site that all software engineers were put to work either at warehouses or as customer service agents during the holidays. I worked customer service one year and picked for two years, both times during graveyard shifts.…

There are some rather key differences though don't you think? I imagine as a reasonably valued software engineer you weren't likely to face disciplinary action or loss of employment for not picking fast enough, thus negating a huge cause of stress/anxiety. You also had the knowledge of a definite finite term of employment followed by more relaxing/agreeable work, another rather significant difference.

You also talk about troubleshooting shortages and getting to do things that require problem solving. It sounds from this article (and others like it over the last few years) that this kind of thing, if even still available at all, is not likely to happen to your average seasonal employee.

The fact that other people have it worse in various sweatshops around the world is hardly relevant, or particularly edifying. We are quite capable of seeing problems as a matter of degree I would hope.

Your comment comes across as a little like the CEO who spends a day on the factory floor and proclaims that he had a marvelous time and everyone treated him wonderfully. Unsurprising, but hardly enlightening...

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#44

"Desk jockey does manual labor and his feet hurt, story at 11" I worked the graveyard shift as a picker at Amazon back around '00. Back then Amazon was so nervous about anybody introducing a bug in the site that all software engineers were put to work either at warehouses or as customer service agents during the holidays. I worked customer service one year and picked for two years, both times during graveyard shifts.…

Empathy redundancy detected!

"Yes, you are a mechanical turk in the strictest sense of the word, being dispatched by your hand scanner to go find something and put it in a cart, but it isn't hard work, just a bit boring."

Would you like to be a permanent 'mechanical turk'? As in... you had zero choice in the matter and no chance to change things ever? That's not 'a bit boring'... that's soul crushing (and I mean 'soul' in a non-religious sense). Studies have shown that sort of stress causes heart disease over 'good stress' (you're manning the Very Important controls).

"If you take it seriously and get good at troubleshooting shortages, then you start getting to do things that require a bit more problem solving, but even the really menial stations aren't terribly bad."

But what if you're not very good at problem solving (quite possible if you're working in a warehouse)?... you being a human with very real needs doesn't stop because you can't 'get serious and solve problems'.

Quite honestly... from your comment, I can only deduce that you are an asshole with an inability to imagine yourself in other people's shoes.

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#45
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work like that. As someone who has been unemployed you have to deal with the following: 1. Child tax credit works on your previous year's income so it can take up to a year to get adjusted. Same with child benefit. 2. Housing benefit takes 8-12 weeks to come through. Not only that it won't cover most private rents inside the M25. The council waiting list is 3-5 years in London so you'll have to go into arr…

Try to pay attention. We were discussing the "problem" of people already receiving benefits being compelled to work for those benefits. While it is a problem that the council allows crackheads into public housing, and there may be problems with government incompetence, this is a somewhat separate discussion. Tangentially, if you want to require drug tests for benefits and kick people out of council housing for antiso…

There is nothing wrong with receiving benefits. I actually receive low rate disability for two members of my family and child tax credit.

My point is that only the JSA covers your salary. The rest is for the care of your children and your accommodation, some of which you still have to pay from your JSA allowance.

You are likely to still receive all other benefits equally whether salaried at a low rate or on JSA so the difference is moot. This is simply a case of salaried vs JSA.

Actually people with social problems such as drug use and psychological problems need more help than most so they should probably get more money, but in a controlled way (untradeable LV's, healthcare etc).

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#46
post #21

at least the british press still cares enough about the average british worker to write an article like this. The american press would only write an article like this if such conditions disparately impacted minority race workers. Pretty soon the british press will do the same. It just gets worse and worse. I see no light at the end of the tunnel. The citizens of america do not even ask the right questions.

Low Wage workers need to fight for their rights and working conditions. Nobody is going to do that for them. That's class warfare, and it has never been more important than today.

Spoken like a person of privilege, someone completely out of touch with the challenges of the poor.

Have you considered that low wage workers may be too exhausted after working two and three jobs a day to engage in "class warfare"? They worry about meeting basic needs for their families like rent and paying for medicines. Their war is survival.

Please, step out of your ivory tower and help them.

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#47

"Desk jockey does manual labor and his feet hurt, story at 11" I worked the graveyard shift as a picker at Amazon back around '00. Back then Amazon was so nervous about anybody introducing a bug in the site that all software engineers were put to work either at warehouses or as customer service agents during the holidays. I worked customer service one year and picked for two years, both times during graveyard shifts.…

There are some rather key differences though don't you think? I imagine as a reasonably valued software engineer you weren't likely to face disciplinary action or loss of employment for not picking fast enough, thus negating a huge cause of stress/anxiety. You also had the knowledge of a definite finite term of employment followed by more relaxing/agreeable work, another rather significant difference. You also talk a…

We were definitely measured the same as everyone else and had the same targets, though obviously didn't face the same repercussions. The targets were hard at first but once you got the hang of it nothing terribly difficult.

It is manual labor, I don't really understand the arguments against. Yes, it is work, yes it is boring, but so it being a gas station attendant. The people I worked side by side with seemed happy enough.

Maybe I lack empathy, but geez, I actually did it for a while, and you and the other respondent didn't... so maybe another option is that the article is a bit sensational and it isn't as bad as it is made out?

Sore feet and that it is boring and are his primary complaints.. really? This is something to get up in arms about?

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#48
post #44

"Desk jockey does manual labor and his feet hurt, story at 11" I worked the graveyard shift as a picker at Amazon back around '00. Back then Amazon was so nervous about anybody introducing a bug in the site that all software engineers were put to work either at warehouses or as customer service agents during the holidays. I worked customer service one year and picked for two years, both times during graveyard shifts.…

Empathy redundancy detected! "Yes, you are a mechanical turk in the strictest sense of the word, being dispatched by your hand scanner to go find something and put it in a cart, but it isn't hard work, just a bit boring." Would you like to be a permanent 'mechanical turk'? As in... you had zero choice in the matter and no chance to change things ever? That's not 'a bit boring'... that's soul crushing (and I mean 'sou…

The employees aren't in jail, they aren't slaves, they have choice.

I worked there, it wasn't that bad. The article is sensational.

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empathy redundancy detected! "Yes, you are a mechanical turk in the strictest sense of the word, being dispatched by your hand scanner to go find something and put it in a cart, but it isn't hard work, just a bit boring." Would you like to be a permanent 'mechanical turk'? As in... you had zero choice in the matter and no chance to change things ever? That's not 'a bit boring'... that's soul crushing (and I mean 'sou…

The employees aren't in jail, they aren't slaves, they have choice. I worked there, it wasn't that bad. The article is sensational.

"The employees aren't in jail, they aren't slaves, they have choice."

Care to outline the choice they have (you forgot the "s", as belies your worldview)? What are the choices outside of jail, slavery or the work conditions described in the article?

I suspect that many of them can't get another job and they need to feed themselves or dependents like children.

"The article is sensational."

If you disagree with the article, why would you give it such a rousing review?

Yep... you are a Grade-A fuckwit.

Re: Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

#50
I worked at an Amazon warehouse in Texas as a seasonal employee about a month ago. It was an absolutely miserable experience - and I say that as someone who has worked plenty of low-end manual jobs. I only lasted a month.

Shifts were 10 hours and had two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch. The floor is large and there is no cafeteria, so it usually was more like a 15 minute break after you walked over to the breakroom and nuked lunch.

That in and of itself was not so bad - I've had food service jobs where we had no breaks at all. But that combined with the actual job duties, combined with the conditions, combined with rigid management, and 1984 "ministry of truth" style propaganda - all that added up to an absolutely miserable experience. It's very hard for me to really communicate why it was so miserable, because I don't fully understand it myself - but I will try. But I will say that I've spent time in prison - and I would choose prison any day over returning to work at Amazon.

I applied online, went on an interview and started a month later. I had a few months free and being a long time Amazon customer and admirer I thought it would be an interesting job to check out for a little bit. I heard it was a warehouse for just books and dvd's, and that it was a brand new warehouse that was just opening up. I read a long PR piece talking about how Amazon had every year changed the design of the warehouses based on what they had learned from the warehouses built previous years. So this was a brand new design that was supposed to be more efficient and also more thoughtful of workers.

I was assigned a shift - Sunday to Wednesday 6am to 5:30 pm. I was not given an option, and when I finally found an HR contact a week before I started to ask if it was possible to change shifts I never heard back from them.

So I was like whatever and went to orientation. It was me and 6 others. By the time I left the job a month later, only 3 remained of that original group. The first to leave and the one I got to know the best was an ex-hooters girl who was my age (31) who was sick of waiting tables and wanted to work for a company she could move up in.

She left a week and a half in after having severe allergies in response to the thick coating of dust throughout the warehouse and on all the shelving we were working "stowing" product on. It turned out it wasn't just books and dvd's - in fact that was a small percentage of what I worked with. Mostly it was cheap consumer goods - the kind I despise and that is slowly killing our planet. The shelves often reeked of toiletries and chemicals and perfumes of various kinds, mixing with the dust to inspire a sickly feeling. FYI exposure to dust and chemicals are conductive to good health.

The job was simple: take some carts of newly shipped product and "stow" them on the shelves: i.e. find space on the shelving where it fits and scan it into the system so it shows up as being available and ready to ship on the online website. It was fairly easy in some ways - the problem was doing that for 10 hours with hardly any interruption, and being surrounded by all that dust and smell and crappy mindless consumer goods. I didn't feel good about what I was doing. I had 3 days off, which I thought at first was great - but it would usually take me those 3 days to just recover from what I experienced in the 4 I was at work.

(Note: if I was given some freedom as to when I did the job, or the timing or duration of breaks, or how long my shifts were - this would not have been that bad a job. I can put up with shit for a few hours - but not 10 without a real break to speak of. And that was it - it was either work within these rigid parameters or not work at all. And so I chose the latter.)

It was a mindless monotonous job, but to make matters work, all over the place Amazon had signs saying "Have fun". Every morning and afternoon after we had our group meeting they repeated this over and over again before we went off to work. Trust me, no one was having fun. Maybe a few in management, but certainly none of the direct workers. It was insulting.

I could go on, but I'm bored. I will finish with something I came across recently, which can be compared to my experience. How bad you consider the job depends on what you compare it to. If you believe that someone living is misery (or, to put it more mildly, doing uninspiring and unimproving labor) is worth it for someone else to receive at a cheap price what in many cases is an unneedful trinket, then my point is mute. But if human happiness and potential is valuable, then this is not a job worthy of human beings. John Ruskin said it much better than I:

"We have much studied and much perfected the great civilised invention of the division of labour; only we give it a false name. Truly speaking it is not the labour that is divided; but the men: – Divided into mere segments of men – broken into small fragments and crumbs of life; so that the little piece of intelligence that is left in a man is not enough to make a pin.

"Only in right understanding on the part of all classes of what kinds of labor are good for men, raising them & making them happy, and by a determined sacrifice of such convenience, or beauty, or cheapness as is to be got only by the degradation of the workman; and by equally determined demand for the products and results of healthy and ennobling labour can this evil be met."

Prior to working there, I had begun taking seriously the treatment of the animals whose products I ate - milk products, eggs, meat ect. Part of what inspired me to work at Amazon was to see what I was supporting when I purchased from them.

Needless to say, I will never again buy a physical product from Amazon - and am trying to ween myself off their digital products. We are far past the time when such demeaning labor should be supported.

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