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Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

venturebeat.com

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Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#41

Post by willchilcutt »

gwf wrote: post #39
shuzchen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hn comment links to a few places where people complained: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6779036 The link that specifically shows people complaining that nobody viewed their app or looked at their video is this: http://salesforce1million.challengepost.com/forum_topics/264...

Your first link doesn't contain a single complaint claiming that people's videos were not viewed. It does, however, link to the second link, and the other two links it contains make no references to this sort of complaint. The second link has exactly one person clearly stating that they've received zero launches and zero video plays. There is a second person that states "Yeah, same here. We had a workflow setup to se…

Thanks for giving more feedback. Would you be kind to respond to the other child of your OP pointing out that the winner had been working and actually demoed their app way before the starting period set out in the rules? Thanks!

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#42

Post by devanti »

jskopek wrote: post #31
devanti wrote: post #27

This is why I don't attend hackathons anymore. At the bigger events, there's always bound to be controversy, cheaters, questionable criteria, etc.

Perhaps you are attending hackathons for the wrong reason? I didn't personally attend, but I'm sure anyone who went in order to build an interesting indea with smart hackers probably had a decent time. Allegations of cheating are serious, but they shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the event unless your main purpose was the win the prize.

For the wrong reason? What's with all these smartie pants on hackernews? A big hackathon always has some sort of incentive, and aiming for that is wrong?

I don't know about you, but I enjoy winning, and I've won hackathons before. If I just wanted to build something with my hacker friends, I can do it any weekend I want.

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#43

Post by gwf »

willchilcutt wrote: post #41
gwf wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first link doesn't contain a single complaint claiming that people's videos were not viewed. It does, however, link to the second link, and the other two links it contains make no references to this sort of complaint. The second link has exactly one person clearly stating that they've received zero launches and zero video plays. There is a second person that states "Yeah, same here. We had a workflow setup to se…

Thanks for giving more feedback. Would you be kind to respond to the other child of your OP pointing out that the winner had been working and actually demoed their app way before the starting period set out in the rules? Thanks!

No problem. Will do in a second...

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#44

Post by gwf »

eridius wrote: post #25
gwf wrote: post #17

I work at salesforce but I am not a spokesperson for salesforce nor do I have any authority to speak for the company. What I write here, I write as a member of HNN only. I did not have any part in the hackathon process, but I had and still do have quite a bit of visibility on how the process was run. I can assure you that an enormous amount of effort went into the judging and that it was entirely unbiased. There were…

What about the allegations that the winning team demoed their app weeks before the hackathon even started?

I honestly can't speak to the specific allegations because I am not in a position to know the facts one way or another. But I can tell you three things for certain.

First, salesforce is taking this very seriously and there is an ongoing discussion at the highest ranks to evaluate the complaints. Literally, the entire executive team is watching this.

Second, there were close to a hundred people that were internally part of the judging process. Each of these judges looked at a dozen or two entries. I could see little opportunity or motivation for collusion.

Finally, salesforce is one of the most self-critical companies that I've ever been a part of when it comes to evaluating ourselves in terms of trust and integrity. Nearly every internal communication begins and ends with a statement around how trust is our most important value. And while some our doubting our credibility in this moment, there's a reason why so many large and small companies trust us to hold their data; it's because we never compromise on any issue of integrity and if we make a mistake we investigate it and own up to it.

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#45

Post by codeoclock »

minimaxir wrote: post #10
codeoclock wrote: post #9

If developers are incentives by the possibility of winning $1m, they would start working months in advance. That's why it's not ok to offer $1m as a hackathon prize, as it's not in the spirit of hacking.

The prospect of a $1M prize wasn't announced until Oct 25th: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/10/25/salesforce-offering...

That's kind of nitpicky. My point was that if there is a hackathon with a highly desirable prize, and you know about it in advance, there is a direct incentive for you to spend time between the time you learn of the hack and the time when the hack officially begins working on ideas, designs, business strategy, and even code, and that that effect is the reason that it's not a good idea, or in the spirit of hacking, to offer high stakes prizes in hackathon style situations.

Apologies for the very long sentence, I love commas and am the arch-nemesis of conciseness.

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#46

Post by argonaut »

yeukhon wrote: post #30
argonaut wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh... Not everyone is on HN. It's presumptuous to assume that because someone hasn't posted here, they're being "silent" on the matter.

I will be fair and yes not everyone. But they are the winners and we are poking at this matter for a day and I would be surprised they haven't checked HN (I am sure their friends are telling them about what readers think of them and Salesforce).

... That's still presumptuous of you. For example, I don't check Reddit. Ever. Is it so hard to believe that some other people who no doubt have something better to do with their time don't check HN? [1]

[1] Rhetorical question.

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#47

Post by yeukhon »

argonaut wrote: post #46
yeukhon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will be fair and yes not everyone. But they are the winners and we are poking at this matter for a day and I would be surprised they haven't checked HN (I am sure their friends are telling them about what readers think of them and Salesforce).

... That's still presumptuous of you. For example, I don't check Reddit. Ever. Is it so hard to believe that some other people who no doubt have something better to do with their time don't check HN? [1] [1] Rhetorical question.

Sorry, I beg to differ in this story. Are you saying these two engineers have no idea what the hell is going on and that they have not been told about what is being discussed here? These guys are software engineers and they sure have friends and co-workers who are HN readers. And they being the main party involved you think they haven't visited the site is one big fat red presumptuous of you in your own word.

If I accuse you being a cheater you sure won't check HN. I am pretty sure.

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#48

Post by colabi »

gwf wrote: post #17

I work at salesforce but I am not a spokesperson for salesforce nor do I have any authority to speak for the company. What I write here, I write as a member of HNN only. I did not have any part in the hackathon process, but I had and still do have quite a bit of visibility on how the process was run. I can assure you that an enormous amount of effort went into the judging and that it was entirely unbiased. There were…

2 of the five finalists now require disqualification. people are looking into the other 3. how thorough could that process really have been?

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#49

Post by colabi »

gwf wrote: post #23
willchilcutt wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that the dozens of people claiming that no one tested their apps are all lying? Like others have said previously, Salesforce must have forgotten about analytics.

I am saying that there is a misunderstanding. The earliest rounds of judging looked at the videos of the apps that contestants produced as well as a code review as a sanity check. This was done most likely so that each app could be viewed in the best possible light as well as to help the judges scale to the number of entries. So, no, the people complaining are not lying but they and anyone else would be incorrect to…

so here's the thing. when you lure people into such a large development period with this statement:

But it’s not going to be easy—$1 million is going to bring out the best of the best. So don’t wait until Dreamforce, you’re going to want to get started now.

and you only have 150 entries, you owe everyone a run. video review becomes inexcusable. people flew in with weeks of work and teams of people. and you reviewed their video? was this supposed reward video craftsmanship? the last thing on many people's minds when you intentionally led them to believe it was the work that counted?

Re: Salesforce hackathon comes under attack from devs

#50

Post by colabi »

gwf wrote: post #39
shuzchen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hn comment links to a few places where people complained: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6779036 The link that specifically shows people complaining that nobody viewed their app or looked at their video is this: http://salesforce1million.challengepost.com/forum_topics/264...

Your first link doesn't contain a single complaint claiming that people's videos were not viewed. It does, however, link to the second link, and the other two links it contains make no references to this sort of complaint. The second link has exactly one person clearly stating that they've received zero launches and zero video plays. There is a second person that states "Yeah, same here. We had a workflow setup to se…

unfortunately, that was the cut of the video that i made prior to seeing the entry form. the actual video that was submitted to the office guideline is here:

https://vimeo.com/79931458

the only views were me. i included the other video after i spoke with a salesforce person about the issue. and they had directed me how to enter the links. that full one is the one that's getting hits because i like it more. it was obviously labeled as not the official video with directions to the official video in case it was accidentally seen.

here's the big problem though. this contest was supposed to validate real applications. healthcare.love is nice, but it's a hollywood set. it doesn't wire into that much. it makes the erroneous mistake of targeting the new healthcare marketplace with an application for expensive iphones? in a demo state that is already covered by covered california? not the government exchange that it's adorable name harkens? i actually wrote simulated systems to pull member plans off the db and fake authorize them and submit them back into the system so that notifications could travel back to the app. oh, and instead of text i included twilio for VOIP and data coordination between the client, not assuming the target individuals would be text savvy youngsters. oh, that, and having to pull of the 85,000 healthcare plans that actually come from the healthcare.gov open marketplace. not just a single json list. so in the end, yah, i guess maybe i should have just focused on the icons? didn't think that was the point.

i held back until now, but looks like the makers of that app are also employees of a salesforce invested company. so they are DQ'd. this is all the kind of thing an open judging with actual use or connection with the entrants could have simply identified. but it all happens in the dark.

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