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Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

nytimes.com

41–50 of 51 posts

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#41

I wonder if they considered showing this person (or at least people on that ISP or region) custom content? Forking the entry so that they could carry on editing in ignorance would, I imagine, be a rather large challenge, but just hard wiring a divertion to some sort of explanation might have been feasible.

I think a better solution would be to allow elevating a page to non-anonymous users only. That way when situations like this arise, they can make a page "user only" and create a line of communication with the person on the other end.

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#42
If the New York Times had a policy of never publicizing kidnappings, I could respect their policy.

However, it appears that they are entirely hypocritial on this topic: I've read TONS of articles in the NYT about people being kidnapped.

I guess that the alleged danger to the captive is only a motivating force when the captive is one of their own. When it's a mere aid worker, or military contractor, or something, then the calculus changes.

Color me disgusted.

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#43
> Around that time, Catherine J. Mathis, the chief spokeswoman for the New York Times Company, called Mr. Wales and asked for his help. Knowing that his own actions on Wikipedia draw attention, Mr. Wales turned to an administrator

Sounds like Jimbo broke both the "sock puppet rule" AND the "three revert rule".

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#45
post #36

It's a shame that the Times framed this as a Times editor's personal intercession to help a journalist, rather than as an application of Wikipedia's "Biographies of living persons" policy: "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid paper; it is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives. The possibility of harm to living subjects is one o…

"The possibility of harm to living subjects is one of the important factors to be considered when exercising editorial judgment." Thanks for pointing directly to Wikipedia's stated editorial policies. That makes clear how Wikipedia had already announced it would resolve such trade-offs.

Wikipedia is not a single entity that can simply announce how "it" will resolve such a thing. The idea that a perfect consensus can be reached on any given issue among the myriad of interested parties (including among the administrators and other higher-ups themselves) is simply naive.

In particular the BLP policy has likely been the center of the most controversy and debate of any policy (using this in the official meta-Wikipedia term for policy). Most of this debate surrounds over how far the interests of the subject should be respected over the truth, particularly when the truth is reported in what Wikipedia considers reliable sources. As Jimbo Wales himself states in that article, HAD this incident been reported in such a source, it would have been much more difficult to deal with.

Frankly, when BLP was drafted and discussed, no one foresaw an event like this occurring. This was the first time a subject was actually in real-time danger and any edit could literally damage his well-being. The events that BLP had in mind were things like libel (google for daniel brandt), unsubstantiated celebrity gossip, invasion of privacy (Allison Stokke, the star wars kid), misinformation (sinbad's death).

What's interesting is that Wikipedia has a culture of decision/discussion transparency that is at odds with protecting privacy in this situation. This could not have been discussed on the typical Wikipedia boards without totally giving up privacy. It's amazing they were able to keep this under wraps as they did.

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#46
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the user's interest in posting the information? How does that compare with the interest of others in keeping the reporter alive?

"What's the user's interest in posting the information?" It does raise an interesting point, especially given the timeframe in which the user kept trying to post that information, given it was occurring over a period of several months. I'm purely speculating here, but I would suspect that said "anonymous" user in Florida might be getting a knock on his door from the DHS soon.

Well. The user's reaction when the news finally went mainstream - "Is this enough proof you fucking retards? I was right" - suggests to me he was just someone who got frustrated that his (correct) edits were being removed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=David_S._Rohde&#38...

If his intention was to help the man's captors spread the word, that edit wouldn't serve any purpose since he had already escaped. Though I suppose you could argue he wanted to stay "in character" for his own protection...

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#47
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand that user's frustration? You edit the article, source the information, and all you get is baffling bureaucracy. Then it turns out that the people who'd been quibbling with you all that time knew you were right and were maintaining a front to keep the information hidden. It's the sort of thing dystopian novels are made of...

Yeah, but if the user wasn't anonymous, he could have been contacted by the wikipedia admins and suggested that perhaps the information wasn't worthy of the public domain yet. Any reasonable person would understand the risk to the man's life and held back from posting it.

[deleted]

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#48
post #42

If the New York Times had a policy of never publicizing kidnappings, I could respect their policy. However, it appears that they are entirely hypocritial on this topic: I've read TONS of articles in the NYT about people being kidnapped. I guess that the alleged danger to the captive is only a motivating force when the captive is one of their own. When it's a mere aid worker, or military contractor, or something, then…

Different circumstances are sometimes, well, different. Sometimes a captive's life is more in danger if the captors consider him or her valuable (like a NYT reporter). Sometimes publicizing the situation helps bring attention in a positive and helpful way (shaming the captors, forcing the government to do something, etc).

And sometimes - often, in fact - you just don't know, and you make the best judgment call you can.

I'm not claiming that the Times always acts correctly in these situations, and it's certainly worthwhile to question what the motivating factors are in whether, when and how to hold a story.

But it's also not really correct to say that all kidnapping situations are exactly the same and must be [not] publicized. They're simply not.

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent said 'dystopian novels', where information is censored or altered. Such is the case with 1984 at least.

Yes, I just found it slightly ridiculous. I think comparisons to 1984 are grossly overused, but especially when the point of books like 1984 is the exploration of complete oppression of society through government control - not that obtuse bureaucracy is kind of frustrating.

The concern is that this could be a step towards complete oppression of society.

Re: Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia

#50
post #37
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a journalist is in-place, then exposing an ambush would both endanger them and ensure that all journalists in similar situations would not be trusted by those they are embedded with. Exposing something from the comfort of your living room is different. The choice between limited reporting in an environment of external censorship, and a choosing not to report at all in protest, is distinct and has different tradeof…

> If a journalist is in-place, then exposing an ambush would both endanger them and ensure that all journalists in similar situations would not be trusted by those they are embedded with. Curiously, they gave neither reason. > Exposing something from the comfort of your living room is different. The NYT had no problem reporting on the kidnapping of an American in Afghanistan ( http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/world/…

And 4 Red Cross workers kidnapped in Afghanistan (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E6DA1F3EF...).

> I'm asking how they live up to their claims.

That should have been "how well", "whether" or "if".

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