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Moving from Ubuntu to Debian

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Re: Moving from Ubuntu to Debian

#41
I consider myself a power-user, I have used a myriad of operating systems, from Slackware to Gentoo, OpenBSD or Plan9.

Yet I like Ubuntu, the desktop works just fine (Believe it or not, I find Unity a nice DE) I can find practically any application in it's repositories (Or by PPA/Deb) and I can install an LTS and forget about upgrading for years.

Is there anything wrong with this? I find the new Dash Amazon search stupid but it's one click away of being disabled, and I'm not happy with Mark's opinions but that doesn't affect directly my experience with the OS.

So I don't see what the big fuss is about, many people say Ubuntu is not Linux anymore, and I agree in some sense; but I like what Canonical is doing with Ubuntu.

So until I find another distro that suits me, I will stay with Ubuntu, that doesn't mean I don't love Gentoo or Arch anymore, but lately I need to get work done, and my parents are using this PC therefore it needs to be available 24/7 without any kind of breakage.

Re: Moving from Ubuntu to Debian

#42
I have both installed for a few years now (Debian on Desktop and Server, Ubuntu on Laptop). First of all every article mentioning something like "I switched recently and everything is fine" just gives me a little sad smile. Yes - every Distro after a fresh install will usually work pretty well by now. Problems tend to show after using it daily for a few months.

My experience is that new Ubuntu versions tend to mess up things often, but I also notice that stuff gets fixed rather often within days. And otherwise one can find lots of workarounds and help thanks to a large and active community. That includes a workaround to disable the internet search for everything in the dash for example.

Debian is fantastic on the server and updates just worked there for me so far. On the Desktop on the other hand the situation is a lot more problematic. Old desktop software is generally just worse than newer one. And software on Debian tends to be outdated so much that I run constantly into old bugs which are solved often for months or even years in current application versions, but not yet in Debian. Pretty much every Desktop application where you want newer versions is simply not available. And applications generally won't get updated between release cycles because that's just not what stable does (except for security fixes). Even finding a browser which simply runs on all websites tends to be a constant pain. So you start trying to work with backports, custom compiled versions, installing packages build for Ubuntu and whatever you can do to get applications you need running - which can cause more and more problems in your system and you will get less and less help from the Debian community because those are (understandably) not "their" packages.

When you bring up those problems the community often recommends using "testing" or "unstable" and while those generally have newer apps they are still mostly outdated. Also while most updates on testing and unstable work most of the time they did mess up my system once in a while on updates so badly that I tended to only update on weekends after a while to have enough time to fix my system before I had to work with it again for the week (which is why I switched to only using stable now for the last 3 versions, maybe unstable/testing have gotten better since then, I can't tell about that).

I still love Debian for it's policy and community. And because I can fix problems often myself (or with the help of the community) and hope that my feedback is useful once in a while and will improve it in the long term I still continue to use it despite the pain. But unfortunately I can't recommend any Debian version right now for the Desktop for people without good Unix knowledge unless they work only with a very restricted set of desktop applications (so might be fine for company desktops where users are not allowed to install anything anyway).

Re: Moving from Ubuntu to Debian

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would anyone recommend some? Also, would anyone talk about FreeBSD vs Linux? What are some reasons to choose each?

My recommendation: Arch Linux. Focusing on "bleeding edge" is nothing to scoff at, a lot of the software coming out lately get major improvements almost weekly. There is also the fact that you're running a clean system. You install once, grab what you need, and you're left with a stable system where every potential problem has a very easy and well-documented fix. You do not suffer things like screen tearing because s…

After having used Ubuntu, Arch and now Debian testing, I can say that Ubuntu is a great way to get to know Linux. At least it was when I used it with Gnome 2.8. At some point I grew tired of all the unnecessary software bloat, though. I loved Arch, until the moment I had to unexpectedly fix a non-booting system after some update. It just wasn't for me, although the minimalism of it felt great.

Now to Debian testing. It's almost perfect. I'm missing a bleeding-edge software update from time to time, but usually you can cherry-pick from Debian sid. There haven't been any issues with updates breaking stuff. I'm using XFCE, so it is fairly light-weight. I can even install Steam and play a game from time to time. It gets out of my way when I want to be productive, but I can still customize it without it getting bloated.

Re: Moving from Ubuntu to Debian

#47
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My recommendation: Arch Linux. Focusing on "bleeding edge" is nothing to scoff at, a lot of the software coming out lately get major improvements almost weekly. There is also the fact that you're running a clean system. You install once, grab what you need, and you're left with a stable system where every potential problem has a very easy and well-documented fix. You do not suffer things like screen tearing because s…

After having used Ubuntu, Arch and now Debian testing, I can say that Ubuntu is a great way to get to know Linux. At least it was when I used it with Gnome 2.8. At some point I grew tired of all the unnecessary software bloat, though. I loved Arch, until the moment I had to unexpectedly fix a non-booting system after some update. It just wasn't for me, although the minimalism of it felt great. Now to Debian testing.…

I have to disagree. Ubuntu is a great way to get to know Ubuntu. Debian, while _incredible_ has somewhat the same flaw, but in its case is worth the tradeoff.

Slackware or Arch are great ways to get to know Linux.

Re: Moving from Ubuntu to Debian

#50
I've also switched to Debian, back in August. I don't like Unity, but the deciding factor was the rolling update characteristic of Debian Testing. Ubuntu just plain breaks in every semi-annual update, and I missed the rolling aspect of Gentoo (which I used before Ubuntu).

Debian testing is reasonably up to date, updates continuously and requires much less maintenance than Gentoo. It's about as hassle-free as Ubuntu. Ubuntu does have some useful PPAs, but if you pick the right version, you can just add an Ubuntu PPA to Debian and it will work.

I could live without some of the political aspects of Debian (there's no Firefox in the default repos???), but they are really just minor hassles. Import a couple PPAs, and you are rolling.

For those of you looking for an alternate distro, my shortlist was Debian Testing and Arch Linux. Arch does look like it has a killer community: techie and helpful, lots of available documentation, much like what I remember from Gentoo. Debian won because I'm less inclined to workstation tweaking and more inclined to real work nowadays.

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