Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned • Hacker News Board

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#41

Post by zimbabwe » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 11:36 AM UTC

michaelneale wrote: post #29

mixmax wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as the saying goes: "If you invite the press for the wedding they will also cover the divorce" Steve Jobs invited the press to the wedding.

I am guessing it would also be reasonable to say it has a material affect on Apple as a publicly traded company, at least in the short term. And certainly the stock price. But I wish him the best, it seems too soon for him to be leaving this, and I am sure he has more he wants to do.

Yeah, we know it has a material effect... but that's not why this is here. Apple's stock isn't interesting Hacker News.

This is here because it's really fun talking about Steve Jobs, love him or hate him, and because the man's the archetypal startup founder along with Woz. That's totally fine but let's not kid ourselves.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#42

Post by zimbabwe » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 11:45 AM UTC

Confusion wrote: post #32

mynameishere wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quit downmodding this guy. Jesus, I hate the downmod arrow. Here's some elucidation: http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north670.html Read it. Time is the great equalizer. Warren Buffett is worth ten thousand times more than you are, assuming you are worth $5 million. But he is 78 years old. Not many people would want to trade places with him, one for one. Steve Jobs is a better man than I'll ever be, but I'd rather be…

Steve Jobs is a better man than I'll ever be, Why? Because he is famous? Because he is rich? Because he, debatably, has 'made the world a better place'? Screw all those default judgements based on cultural indoctrination. Why is it Good to be famous, rich, innovative, an effective leader, ...? As far as I'm concerned, Steve Jobs and Warren Buffett are no better than you or me when I consider what I think is important…

I've developed my own code of ethics, which says... that Steve Jobs is a better man than most of us will ever be. He pursued the things he was curious in, made sophisticated pieces of technology readily available for consumers, was enough of an asshole not to have to conform much of his work to standards he couldn't bear to conform to, developed enough business acumen to deal with lots of people he probably didn't want to deal with, funded the most brilliant animator of this generation out of his own pocket, created not one but two companies with a greater reputation for excellence than any company that's existed before, and he did it all with a flair for the dramatic. In the meantime he got married and had kids and survived cancer and talked a lot to kids about loving life and survival.

When I use a computer or listen to an iPod, when I prepare to upload my music to iTunes practically hassle-free, when I look at the Mac-using companies that have developed beautiful products, I'm aware that Steve Jobs stands as a symbol for all of the things I love about this community. A lot of us have that feeling. It's not celebrity worship like gets slurred around a lot. It's more that Jobs was the first pro-aesthetic guy in computers, and he's remained an inspiration and a hero to those of us that like beautiful product, and revolutionary product, and annual dramatic revelations on-stage.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#43

Post by zimbabwe » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 11:48 AM UTC

sho wrote: post #7

"Apple has previously drawn criticism from some shareholders over what they have called limited disclosure of Mr. Jobs's health problems" "once Mr. Jobs resumes work, the company will have to be "very careful" about what it says" This strikes me as almost unbelievably cynical, that Jobs' health could be factored into the price of Apple shares. I understand why, of course, but still, I hate it and I wonder how SJ hims…

It's insane not because it's cynical, but because we've now seen twice that when Steve Jobs is gone, Apple falls back on TimCookPhilSchillerEddyCueJonathanIve and every other one of its other brilliant, beauty-minded industrialists. Jobs once said that he views Apple as his lasting triumph, not the Mac or the iPod, because with Apple he took his ideals and embedded them within the company upon his return. The result is that any one of the people at Apple is as brilliant as Jobs is. Some would argue that Tim Cook is a better Jobs than Jobs himself.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#44

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 11:51 AM UTC

jstevens85 wrote: post #39

rbanffy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs is a public figure and is perceived as the creative driving force behind Apple's success, and Apple is a publicly-traded company. His health, thus, is of concern to Apple users and shareholders. And competitors too, but in a different, probably evil, way. His health worries me too - and I am neither a heavy Apple user nor a shareholder, but I am deeply concerned about innovation in this market if he ever r…

"Who would lead?" Jon Rubenstein? I think the Palm Pre is of the same calibre in terms of innovation and ease of use as any Apple product. I'd like to see what Palm could do with Jon at the helm, and the same resources as Apple.

Joel Rubinstein came from Apple. IIRC, Palm's founders too.

My first Palm even matched Newton's colors...

Seriously: Palm right now has its fortune hanging on a smartphone that cannot be used anyplace other than the US.

As much as I wish them well (I really do) I am not confident Joel could lead the whole PC industry anywhere. He has his hands full.

I would consider hiring back Wozniak. The guy has some serious street cred.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#45

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 11:54 AM UTC

demallien wrote: post #40

mixmax wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as the saying goes: "If you invite the press for the wedding they will also cover the divorce" Steve Jobs invited the press to the wedding.

Out of curiousity, what are your examples of Jobs inviting people into his private life? From where I stand, he's always been very demanding about the need to keep his private life private. Apple does not rely on Jobs' public profile for success. Yes, they do rely on his ability as a driver of innovation, but if Jobs were never to say a word in public again, it wouldn't seem to hurt Apple (at least, that's my opinion…

I am sure Apple would survive if Jobs retired as a company spokesman as long as he kept showing up for his very competent job as innovation driver.

I am not sure someone would be able to step in his shoes when he decides to retire.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#46

Post by thras » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 12:37 PM UTC

zimbabwe wrote: post #42

Confusion wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs is a better man than I'll ever be, Why? Because he is famous? Because he is rich? Because he, debatably, has 'made the world a better place'? Screw all those default judgements based on cultural indoctrination. Why is it Good to be famous, rich, innovative, an effective leader, ...? As far as I'm concerned, Steve Jobs and Warren Buffett are no better than you or me when I consider what I think is important…

I've developed my own code of ethics, which says... that Steve Jobs is a better man than most of us will ever be. He pursued the things he was curious in, made sophisticated pieces of technology readily available for consumers, was enough of an asshole not to have to conform much of his work to standards he couldn't bear to conform to, developed enough business acumen to deal with lots of people he probably didn't wa…

That's funny, because I always had the impression that on a personal scale he was an asshole to his friends and strangers.

But yeah, I like my iPhone.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#47

Post by wozer » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 12:46 PM UTC

TrevorJ wrote: post #5

I find it odd that disclosing a liver transplant and not disclosing the condition that precipitated it is the way they chose to go here. I would think that once the transplant cat is out of the bag, you might as well be open about the condition. After all none of the reasons for needing a new liver are good and people will probably assume the worst as it is.

There was some speculation back in January:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/jan/16/steve-...

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#48

Post by stcredzero » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 2:44 PM UTC

mynameishere wrote: post #12

Reminds me of the fact fame and fortune aren't worth much compared with health. I wouldn't trade places with him [...takes another sip of wine.]

"One bowl of rice, two bowls of rice. One tatami mat, two tatami mats."

That's a Japanese aphorism I saw in translations of "Lone Wolf and Cub." It means, as a mortal creature, there's only so much of life you can enjoy, no matter how rich you are. You can only eat two large bowls of rice before you feel bloated, and you probably don't use more space to sleep than covered by a couple of tatami mats.

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#49

Post by jodrellblank » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 2:45 PM UTC

gizmo wrote: post #18

sho wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's basically placing monetary bets on another human being's health. Yeah, I know he's the key person, I know why they do it, I just think it's depressing that our society still hasn't risen above putting a dollar value on life.

Why should we rise above it? What's wrong with estimating somebody's worth in dollars?

If I have a widget that I'll sell to you for $4 then it's worth $4 to me. If you'll only pay $2 for it then it's worth $2 to you.

To whom is a human worth money? You can't own people, can't buy or sell them. Can't recreate them, can't even get an accurate clone.

You can talk about a sportsperson's value to their team in terms of how much money they bring in in ticket sales, how much sponsorship, how much media attention, how much another team will pay for them.

But the problem is when lots of money is involved, people care more for the money than the person. I don't have a problem with people trading on Apple stock and factoring in SJ's health at some level. I do have a problem when it pushes further and further towards SJ being treated as just another asset, some legal and medical details to be pried through, some news announcements to be analysed, some blood pressure and heart rate figures to be tracking.

Picking apart the Golden Goose to try and find where the Golden Eggs are hidden? Tearing up the Mona Lisa to find which brushstroke made it worth so much? Pulling down the Eiffel tower to see if an Operah Tower in the same place would have as much impact?

If he wasn't already a health fan, would the world be pushing him to alter his diet? His exercise regime? "In a bowel movement estimated to be worth half a million dollars this morning, SJ's saturated fat absorption levels were up 13% on last week (full analysis here), SJ didn't respond to a request for comment. Unusually, he looked in the mirror for 6% longer than average over the last three months, experts have raised concerns over his increasing vanity assessment index especially when taken into account his recent announcement "I had a great night's sleep last night" to his wife over breakfast, he didn't respond to 18 phonecalls for comment on that either". Would we be designing every part of his life and forcing him to live as we think will maximise AAPL profit, restricting and shaping like a human veal calf?

What's right with estimating somebody's worth in dollars? Why should you be able to profit from speculating on someone elses work? Why should people who have no choice where they are born be forced to be judged within the limits of someone elses monetary system?

Re: Jobs had liver transplant 2 months ago; expected to return to work as planned

#50

Post by stcredzero » Sat, Jun 20, 2009, 2:48 PM UTC

thras wrote: post #46

zimbabwe wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've developed my own code of ethics, which says... that Steve Jobs is a better man than most of us will ever be. He pursued the things he was curious in, made sophisticated pieces of technology readily available for consumers, was enough of an asshole not to have to conform much of his work to standards he couldn't bear to conform to, developed enough business acumen to deal with lots of people he probably didn't wa…

That's funny, because I always had the impression that on a personal scale he was an asshole to his friends and strangers. But yeah, I like my iPhone.

Unfortunately, lots of individualist philosophies are used by people to justify their own asshole behavior. Note that this doesn't necessarily diminish the validity of the philosophy itself.

How often is it necessary to bruise the feelings of others to be true to yourself? Just about never, in my experience. There are lots of occasions in The Fountainhead where others feelings are bruised, but this is their jealousy causing self-inflicted distress. You can often be true to yourself by discreetly keeping your own counsel, so long as you are not dissuaded from your own true desires.

If you are the boss of others, you should be able to do this honestly and without cruelty, even if you are a hard taskmaster and blunt in your opinions.