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The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

nytimes.com

41–50 of 170 posts

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#41
post #26

I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.

> I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. The millions of people who have quit tobacco because of them, for one example. > I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. On behalf of the decent people in the vaping community, I'm sorry that you have to put up with people like that. There's a big movement in the community at the moment to severely discourage people from using them in in…

Thats just it, most e-cig users will be fine with holding it in. As an ex cigarette smoker, I am still not ok with doing it openly in public spaces (movie theater, restaurant, etc.). However, if I feel that all too familiar feeling and going outside is an inconvenience, Ill take a drag, and just hold it.

Boom, no cloud. Simple as that.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#42
post #6

I do not understand why some people try to regulate this. My guess is that income from smoking-tax is shrinking. I never smoked cigarette in my life, but I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee. It works, no hassle with tea or coffee preparation, also it is probably healthier. But being labeled as a smoker puts me off.

"I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee...it is probably healthier." I'll grant that vaporization ameliorates the problems merely caused by smoke inhalation, but doesn't inhaling nicotine cause many health problems on its own? I'll also not aware of there being health issues that result from drinking a normal amount of tea or coffee.

Reading the Wikipedia article on the health effects of coffee, coffee is almost certainly a net plus for health.

Nicotine is ambiguous.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#43
post #24

I can't fathom who thought these things were a good idea. I see people "smoking" these things everywhere: on the bus, on the train, at the effing university during classes! I don't care if it's just steam, I don't want it in my face. I can't believe people don't get this.

People tap-tap-tapping at their fucking phones gets the same reaction from me. Of course it's irrational for me to feel this way, so I've learned to ignore it.

I am extraordinarily allergic to the glycol in e-cigs. Just a few seconds of exposure is enough to send me into anaphylaxis. I am pretty sure somebody tapping away on their phone wont kill you.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the scientific method backwards. Things are not shown to be safe, ever. They are shown to be dangerous. For example, cannabis smoke. It has been shown to cause emphysema. Despite rather large and lengthy population studies, it has not been shown to cause lung cancer. That's despite both your instinct and my own that "of course any smoke causes cancer of the lungs". No, cannabis smoke has not been demonstrate…

>That's despite both your instinct and my own that "of course any smoke causes cancer of the lungs". No, cannabis smoke has not been demonstrated to do that. http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/31/2/280.full The risk of lung cancer increased 8% (95% confidence interval (CI) 2–15) for each joint-yr of cannabis smoking, after adjustment for confounding variables including cigarette smoking, and 7% (95% CI 5–9) for each…

What you are showing here is that we've moved on to the meta-analysis part of the scientific method. Basically, given many studies, featuring an unknown number of bad actors and poor methodologies, what conclusion can we draw from the numbers?

There are 400 people enrolled in that study. British health services have conducted multiple longitudinal studies, on Jamaican, British and Indian populations, over more than 100 years, with larger sample sets. Different conclusions were drawn.

Note: what I wrote is not a meta-analysis either. I don't have one in my back pocket. If you find one let's talk.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#45
post #36

I used to run a custom e-cigarette company. We sold it this summer. My take away was that the federal government eventually will get involved and start regulating the shipping of these items. Unfortunately the stuff people are getting now is mostly made in China and you can't be too certain of what the heck you are getting when you take a big inhale and just taste the apple flavoring or whatever. Who knows what chemi…

Definitely hit them on airplanes before with no problems. If you were flying on an airline based in the United States, you violated their rules. http://www.businessinsider.com/you-cant-smoke-e-cigarettes-i... Beyond that, what gives you the right to put other people's health at risk? You have either judged them safe or decided you don't care about the risks. You can't make that decision for other people and you're no…

[deleted]

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#46
post #6

I do not understand why some people try to regulate this. My guess is that income from smoking-tax is shrinking. I never smoked cigarette in my life, but I tried e-cigs as a replacement for coffee. It works, no hassle with tea or coffee preparation, also it is probably healthier. But being labeled as a smoker puts me off.

You have no idea what chemicals are actually in that stuff.

If you buy from legitimate sources, you do. There are quality liquid producers that only use FDA-regulated flavors and sweeteners, organically-source vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and water. You can buy cheap from producers overseas, and I'm sure many do, but you can be as picky with your liquid as you can with what you eat.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's despite both your instinct and my own that "of course any smoke causes cancer of the lungs". No, cannabis smoke has not been demonstrated to do that. http://erj.ersjournals.com/content/31/2/280.full The risk of lung cancer increased 8% (95% confidence interval (CI) 2–15) for each joint-yr of cannabis smoking, after adjustment for confounding variables including cigarette smoking, and 7% (95% CI 5–9) for each…

What you are showing here is that we've moved on to the meta-analysis part of the scientific method. Basically, given many studies, featuring an unknown number of bad actors and poor methodologies, what conclusion can we draw from the numbers? There are 400 people enrolled in that study. British health services have conducted multiple longitudinal studies, on Jamaican, British and Indian populations, over more than 1…

"Although marijuana smoke contains a number of carcinogens and cocarcinogens, findings from a limited number of well-designed epidemiological studies do not suggest an increased risk for the development of either lung or upper airway cancer from light or moderate use, although evidence is mixed concerning possible carcinogenic risks of heavy, long-term use... Several case reports have implicated marijuana smoking as an etiologic factor in pneumothorax/pneumomediastinum and bullous lung disease, although evidence of a possible causal link from epidemiologic studies is lacking. In summary, the accumulated weight of evidence implies far lower risks for pulmonary complications of even regular heavy use of marijuana compared with the grave pulmonary consequences of tobacco."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23802821

Wildly off topic, though.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#48
post #32

E-Cigarettes are going to save millions of lives in the coming years. They're harmless, and, if you get a brand that feels like the real thing, easy to transition to. I hope the tobacco industry takes a huge financial hit from the sale of these things because they literally prevent people from dying. That being said, when I switched to e-cigarettes, it was very easy to switch back to regular cigarettes. That "narrow…

But are they harmless? If they’re made with chemicals in an unregulated industrial process, it seems unlikely. Less harmful than ”analog” cigarettes, maybe—but completely harmless seems like an unlikely stretch.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#49
post #28
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. Most reasonable people in the vaping community discourage that kind of behavior. At the end of the day, there will always be assholes. > The FDA is collecting reports of adverse effects and there are plenty There are four ingredients in e-cigarette juice: propylene glycol, vegetable glycerin, nicotine, and fl…

Because humans aren't rational machines and there are many things that cause people to take up habits that aren't healthy I get this, but usually there is some substantial benefit to the habit. To start smoking cigarettes today, you are well aware of the fact that it will: 1. Make you less healthy while you are alive 2. Will prematurely end your life 3. Will make you reviled by a large portion of the population 4. Wi…

I started smoking in university, and where I'm from a very high percentage of university students smoke (usually roll-your-own cigarettes, though).

I can remember the first time I had a puff of a cigarette, and I was quite drunk at the time. The thing about smoking while drinking is that, at least at the start, a cigarette seems to make you twice as drunk as you were before, while also making you feel really good.

Of course before this I had smoked weed a bunch of times, and here that is usually mixed with tobacco in a joint, so I was used to it at least in that aspect.

But most people here who smoke weed and not cigarettes are quite able to handle the occasional tobacco in a joint without making a cigarette habit out of it.

Anyway, basically it just started out as something that I would do while out drinking. I would get drunk with my roommates, and occasionally have a puff or two from a cigarette in that state. Eventually I would have a whole roll-up to myself. Eventually I started buying my own tobacco to use with my own weed, and at times I would occasionally have a pure tobacco roll-up with no weed, just for the nice feeling.

For a lot of people, it generally starts out with the connection to drinking. Drinking and smoking are very conducive to each other, and it's how many many people get started.

I don't think I need to go into the details of how alcohol affects your judgement.

How my addiction came about was a slower process. At one point for whatever reason I decided to have a cigarette in the morning just as I was walking to my college, and by god did it feel great. At this point I was still convinced in the back of my mind that I had it under control, and could quit whenever I wanted.

The tradition of a morning cigarette turned into a necessity. Within about 6 months, I had an awful nervous feeling in my arms and stomach until I had the first cigarette of the day, and once it gets to that point, you're screwed.

I was young and foolish, I was drinking, I was doing it with my friends, I was getting social satisfaction from it. I enjoyed the ritual of making the trek to the smoking area with a friend or two for a nice chat while everyone else was inside.

I was smoking up until early August this year. I'm not a drinker at all anymore, and it's always been completely clear to me the health risks of smoking cigarettes, but the excuses still pile up: stress at work, stress at home, no time, trying to find as much enjoyment from my free time as I can, etc.

I switched to an e-cigarette (I hate that term, by the way, much prefer vaporizer) then in August, and the difference has been night and day. I never had another cigarette after that day, and to be honest, I despise them now. I've never had a craving for one and the smell of the smoke disgusts me now like it never did before when I was a smoker.

My cravings have gone down as well. I no longer feel that nervous feeling when I wake up in the morning. My nicotine requirements have gone way down. I'll be moving to a lower nicotine % juice when my current bottle runs out. My blood pressure is great, I can run again, my circulation is better and I don't cough up gunk.

I still have no full intention of quitting. Nicotine for me, like caffeine for some, is an aid to my work pattern. Walking down to the curb for a cigarette or leaning back for a few puffs from my vaporizer are the things that get my mind past a difficult bug or coding problem.

Re: The E-Cigarette Industry, Waiting to Exhale

#50
post #4

I am starting to see people puffing on these stupid e-cigarettes in restaurants that ban cigarette smoking. When you say something to them they invariably try to "educate" you on what an e-cigarette is and how it's different. The problem is that e-cigarettes have not been shown to be safe. From the article: Most public health officials seem to agree that the levels of toxins in e-cigarettes are far lower than those i…

Wow, looking through your citation, almost all of the reports are because the user had a lung condition prior, or an allergy to glycol. This is merely confirmation bias in a report, at best. This is why they SHOULD be regulated, so the adequate warnings can be expressed and the low quality one thrown out of the market, but it does not show that ALL should just be removed.

We already see that your experience has shaped your worldview, but dont impose that on others.

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