Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Most people won't

bryce.vc

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 83 posts

Re: Most people won't

#41

Post by [deleted] »

Thatguise wrote: post #9
md224 wrote: post #3

I've been kind of struggling lately with this sort of inspirational attitude. It seems like a good attitude, but it also comes with this hidden assumption: if you try hard and keep at it, there's a good chance you'll succeed. Is this actually true? I mean I want it to be true. I'd like to live in a world where it's true. But I don't actually have any hard evidence besides the testimonials of people who have found suc…

It is, it has been done, statistically when it comes to financial success America is fast becoming one of the countries where its most unlikely to go from rags to riches. Its not a lie, its big data crunching the numbers that are out there, and those numbers say if you are poor you are most likely going to end poor, or perhaps dirt poor.

[deleted]

Re: Most people won't

#42

Post by larrys »

spodek wrote: post #17

Everybody so far is commenting on the woman who approached the CEO. Let's not forget the CEO, who committed and risked resources on a hunch or instinct or who-knows-what. If I had to pick one of the two to ask how they had the nerve to act and to learn from, I'd pick him. (Of course I'd prefer both and not to belittle her gumption and skills to back it up). - What did he see to suggest risking those resources? ... To…

The questions you want answers to are valid (and I'd be curious also) but I think that most likely the answers to this are n=1 and we don't have any knowledge of others who might do the exact same thing and have a different outcome.

Not to mention the fact that whatever his answers are they are specific to his organization, what he sells and who he is surrounded by.

Once again, interesting questions but I'm not sure either way the answers matter that much. I don't think how he handled this particular case (noting though that you did want to know if he had done these things before) you can draw any clear conclusions.

Separately I wonder if the person who pitched him were not an attractive woman but say an unattractive woman or man what the results would have been and what would have happened. (That said I've had great results pitching people by email which is more or less a neutral.)

Re: Most people won't

#43

Post by wpietri »

jonathanjaeger wrote: post #34
pkulak wrote: post #32

I hate this self empowerment bullshit. Do people have any idea what this sounds like to people with actual, real problems? Your life can't be solved by positive thinking and being impulsive. In fact, I can make a very good case that that kind of attitude will create far more problems than it solves. Hell, I'm sure I could come up with _two_ anecdotes, which is already twice the evidence given by this blog post.

They've done studies that show if you force yourself to smile, even if you're in a bad mood, it'll make you happier. Even if it's forced, it still helps. This same idea can be applied to self-empowerment and it works for people. Just because it's cheesy doesn't mean it doesn't work. I mean, even knowing you're taking a placebo can still lead to positive outcomes.

One of the related studies I like comes from Richard Wiseman. Basically, lucky is somewhere between an attitude and a skill:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/3304496/Be-lucky-its-a...

I agree with pkulak that a lot of self-empowerment stuff is bullshit. And some of it is dangerous bullshit. But a lot of it is effective bullshit because it works to counter the ineffective bullshit that lives in our heads.

It's crazy. But, then, we're made out of meat. The whole thing's crazy.

Re: Most people won't

#44

Post by mindcrime »

Thatguise wrote: post #16
WalterBright wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The failure rate for those who don't try is 100%.

For a lot of those who try its also 100%. The question is should you be trying this in the first place? Did you know its actually more likely you will survive a plane crash than have a successful startup exit? Now, would you still hop in a plane you know its going to crash? With that logic you should, chances are you will survive, maybe.

The question is should you be trying this in the first place?

Here's how I'd approach this scenario:

Did you know its actually more likely you will survive a plane crash than have a successful startup exit?

First, I'm not actually convinced that this is true at all, but let's go with it for the sake of argument...

Now, would you still hop in a plane you know its going to crash?

Since we're working with analogies here, I'll say "yes". Why? Because continuing to work a routine, corporate 9-5 job, is such a mind-numbing, soul-sucking, draining life of desperation, that - by analogy - it's about equivalent to "remaining in the burning building, on the 99th floor, surrounded by flames, falling beams, and smoke" versus "get on the airplane that might rescue you, but will probably just crash".

So, get on the airplane (or start the startup) and at least have a chance at living, or keep the corporate job (stay in the burning building) and consciously choose death.

Of course this is all somewhat subjective. Not everybody will agree that the soul-sucking corporate bureaucratic world is analogous to death. But for some people, with certain personality types, biases, whatever, it is.

Re: Most people won't

#45

Post by mindcrime »

pkulak wrote: post #32

I hate this self empowerment bullshit. Do people have any idea what this sounds like to people with actual, real problems? Your life can't be solved by positive thinking and being impulsive. In fact, I can make a very good case that that kind of attitude will create far more problems than it solves. Hell, I'm sure I could come up with _two_ anecdotes, which is already twice the evidence given by this blog post.

I hate this self empowerment bullshit.

Yeah, same here. I mean, it's absurd to think that we have any control whatsoever over our fate. We clearly don't have agency or free will when you get right down to it. We are just particles in motion, deterministically following a path that was laid down by forces outside of our control, far before we were even born.

It would be the height of hubris to think that we can wrest control of our lives from the unseen, unknowable, mysterious forces of fate, and use conscious choice to drive ourselves towards any sort of "goal" or anything.

Just typing this, I realize how stupid I've been all these years, thinking that all this "hard work" and "sacrifice" and "effort" and "action" could actually lead to anything. Thanks for the enlightenment, I'm going to go take a bath with my toaster now...

Re: Most people won't

#46

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

larrys wrote: post #30
md224 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if the failure rate for those who do try is 99%? Trying isn't always zero-risk... I wonder if ambition could be subject to a cost/benefit analysis, haha. At some point I suppose you just have to let go of the numbers.

Well first you are correct in that there is a psychological cost of failure for sure. Which is why it's harder for some people to cold call than others. I've found that since the advent of email (and before that postal mail) it's much easier though. You fire off an email and you forget it. If something happens it happens. So you don't really feel the rejection. By the way separately some of the best cold calling sale…

> ...there is a psychological cost of failure for sure.

I think this is one of the biggest challenges for entrepreneurs. Winston Churchill once said "Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." A lot of people, however, can only tolerate so much failure. At some point, failure wears them down and they lose the will to keep trying.

Re: Most people won't

#47

Post by Thatguise »

altr3g0 wrote: post #21
Thatguise wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, it has been done, statistically when it comes to financial success America is fast becoming one of the countries where its most unlikely to go from rags to riches. Its not a lie, its big data crunching the numbers that are out there, and those numbers say if you are poor you are most likely going to end poor, or perhaps dirt poor.

Nothing against you or the person who did that research, but: fuck statistics. Eventually one gets to defy them!

Why don't you go back to youtube comments, or better yet the first grade?

Re: Most people won't

#48

Post by pkulak »

jonathanjaeger wrote: post #34
pkulak wrote: post #32

I hate this self empowerment bullshit. Do people have any idea what this sounds like to people with actual, real problems? Your life can't be solved by positive thinking and being impulsive. In fact, I can make a very good case that that kind of attitude will create far more problems than it solves. Hell, I'm sure I could come up with _two_ anecdotes, which is already twice the evidence given by this blog post.

They've done studies that show if you force yourself to smile, even if you're in a bad mood, it'll make you happier. Even if it's forced, it still helps. This same idea can be applied to self-empowerment and it works for people. Just because it's cheesy doesn't mean it doesn't work. I mean, even knowing you're taking a placebo can still lead to positive outcomes.

Sounds like a pretty superficial happy to me. And it doesn't actually solve any of the problems that make you sad.

Barbara Ehrenreich wrote a really good book about this kind of thing: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SKDGQ0

Re: Most people won't

#49

Post by Thatguise »

[deleted] wrote: post #41
Thatguise wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, it has been done, statistically when it comes to financial success America is fast becoming one of the countries where its most unlikely to go from rags to riches. Its not a lie, its big data crunching the numbers that are out there, and those numbers say if you are poor you are most likely going to end poor, or perhaps dirt poor.

[deleted]

Yeah my mistake I shouldn't have used "rags to riches" since no country has ever had as a statistical point.

No, what I meant which is what you are talking about is "upward mobility" and that is exactly what is going down in America: the plausibility of reaching a higher economical status than the one you were born in to, not necessarily becoming a millionaire.

That was the American Dream, and right now the average American has the same chances of upward mobility than the average citizen of a third world country.

Re: Most people won't

#50

Post by sitkack »

namank wrote: post #39
spodek wrote: post #17

Everybody so far is commenting on the woman who approached the CEO. Let's not forget the CEO, who committed and risked resources on a hunch or instinct or who-knows-what. If I had to pick one of the two to ask how they had the nerve to act and to learn from, I'd pick him. (Of course I'd prefer both and not to belittle her gumption and skills to back it up). - What did he see to suggest risking those resources? ... To…

Not really. She qualified herself by saying: 1. she uses it all the time. 2. she hates it. As a founder, I am always looking for that combination in my users. The bonus was offering herself as the solution. I'll venture that his decision was made even before she finished the sentence.

But I don't want to fix Air BnB's problems, I want to see them die in fire. I use it all the time, but I can't resist the urge to work there and burn the place to ground.
Post reply on HN