Why do we have to "attract" them?
Discouraging 50% of the population from contributing just seems a bit inefficient to me.
How to attract girls to the tech industry
41–50 of 65 posts
Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#42This stuff infuriates me. > But then last year I spoke at a conference and I heard that the numbers of women in technology was in decline and I thought, 'That isn't right.' It is not right nor wrong! It just is . To make a statement like this is to give legitimacy to the idea that the equipment you've got tucked between your thighs is in some way relevant to your ability to do the job. Who cares? Just do the damn job…
I don't think you're fully appreciative the hardships minorities in certain environments have to endure from the brazen level to the subtle and hard to isolate incidents.
Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#43When the article tries to deal with Lovelace: > Ada Lovelace was coding in a time when few men did Really? Even such an obtuse statement indicates a complete ignorance of what she did weakening further any point they have to make. Not helped by the fact they have not indicated the IT interests and acomplishments of the girl whom is the subject of the article. Some of the worst (Male) employees we have ever hired as d…
"Applications of statistics in this area fail to illuminate but at all any useful causal link." - if you're relying on statistics to show things in this area you're missing the complexity of the situation which a more interpretative account may be able to find meaning in. Statistics is not the be all and end all. You may be bored/fed up/whatever by it but many women (and men) in tech aren't - and nor should we be. It…
if you're relying on statistics to show things in this area you're missing the complexity of the situation which a more interpretative account may be able to find meaning in. Statistics is not the be all and end all.
Sounds a lot like "that A/B test didn't give the results I wanted so lets try again with a higher p-value cutoff and fewer controls."
Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#44The article has the answer of why women aren't in tech fields:
Choosing computer science is an unnecessarily tough choice and one you aren't going to make unless you are one of the stubborn girls like I was
Women in western countries have a lot of life choices that don't include working at an office job. The article talks about IT tracks conflicting with drama tracks... I was thinking "wtf?". If you have drama as one of the main reason for going to school, then you're not really worried about having to earn a living some day. Must be nice.
For men, getting a career to earn a living is what's beaten into you from a very young age. I chose IT as a study and a career because it intersected with the sets of "things that can earn me a decent living" and "things that interest me".
The article goes on to say that the solution is to do more advocacy to encourage women to get into STEM; but that does nothing to really address the root cause... as though it could or should.
Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#45When the article tries to deal with Lovelace: > Ada Lovelace was coding in a time when few men did Really? Even such an obtuse statement indicates a complete ignorance of what she did weakening further any point they have to make. Not helped by the fact they have not indicated the IT interests and acomplishments of the girl whom is the subject of the article. Some of the worst (Male) employees we have ever hired as d…
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Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#46The title is actually Why tech needs a makeover to attract girls but the article doesn't say why. Technology is at the forefront of the economy and women have a vital role to play feels rather empty. And while I'm sure Brazil and India can offer insights and be on the forefront of improving policies, those are not really very enticing models to emulate. Let's be honest, women in India work in IT to get ahead because…
The simple answer to why is to increase the labour supply to decrease wages. Programming jobs are some of the highest paid jobs that employees can find right now, and people are looking to correct that. This is the heart of the matter.
The sightly more complex answer to why women (or girls) are singled out specifically is that in a male dominated field we can assume that the best males, who have any interest in working in said field, are already working in the industry. Attracting more males simply reduces the quality of the supply. When women are a virtually untapped market, you can attempt to bring in the best women, thus increasing the numbers without affecting the quality of the supply.
Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#47> "Some schools, often girl-only schools, simply don't offer ICT [information and communications technology] at A-level and the girls wanting to do it have to go to a nearby boys school to learn it," she says.
For what it's worth, I went to a public magnet school for computers, AND a private school in which every person had a laptop. I learned nothing of tech in either school, and I taught myself everything I know. (They wouldn't let me take the classes I was already studying at home)
> And among girls who carry on and study science at university, two out of three don't go on to Stem-related careers.
How many people actually get a career in what they got a degree? Probably half of the people I know do something different than what they studied in school.
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This kind of article has me thinking more and more about assigned gender roles and societal expectations. A lot of people are really concerned with getting women into the tech industry. Years ago, people were probably really concerned with getting women into etiquette school, or getting them to learn a trade such as seamstress. How is our modern imposition of what a particular gender should do any different than the old impositions?
People claim to be pushing for these "new" gender roles as a way to fight inequality, or because women need help getting into the industry. But how necessary is it? For nerdy/geeky people who are really inspired and curious about the stuff, there is little stopping someone from learning online via tutorials and books geared towards beginners.
That said, I think there is an urgent need for more female-centric online help. The male-dominated chat, mailing lists and forums can be horrible for anyone to browse, though they're particularly hostile towards women. But I don't think this is an industry thing, I think this is a general cultural thing. Find American boys or men anonymously online and they'll probably be doing some really horrible shit, a lot of it directed negatively towards women.
I think we all want a quick and easy fix, so we look at just the tech industry. We decide that we only want to fix our own little corner of the world and ignore the larger problem. But realistically, the lack of women in tech is probably a larger societal issue, and it won't ever be resolved until you address the bigger picture.
Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#48I'll propose a theory which will probably not be very popular, that IT jobs are one of the few "male" support jobs that are marginally socially acceptable, causing intense demand for them by men and crowding out the women who have other opportunities. If a woman wants a low status / long hours / behind the scenes / support career there are a variety of socially acceptable job fields to enter. Secretary, nurse, day ca…
Interesting theory, but do you also account for the tiered nature of IT jobs? (Tiered w.r.t domain/difficulty/etc)
Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#49> "Some schools, often girl-only schools, simply don't offer ICT [information and communications technology] at A-level and the girls wanting to do it have to go to a nearby boys school to learn it," she says. For what it's worth, I went to a public magnet school for computers, AND a private school in which every person had a laptop. I learned nothing of tech in either school, and I taught myself everything I know. (…
I think IT just gets a lot of press and coverage of people who got rich.
Computers are nice because you don't need a huge factory to start something. However, let's take an archaic example: sewing. I think you can also get rich sewing, for example by designing a popular fashion line or creating a popular brand.
I am not even sure it is easier to get rich with computers than with sewing, or if more people are getting rich with programming than with sewing.
It seems possible that by the time women have been successfully coerced into tech careers, some completely different technology will be in the limelight. I don't know what - perhaps bioengineering? Then there will be a big lament why so few women are in bioengineering.
Re: How to attract girls to the tech industry
#50I'll propose a theory which will probably not be very popular, that IT jobs are one of the few "male" support jobs that are marginally socially acceptable, causing intense demand for them by men and crowding out the women who have other opportunities. If a woman wants a low status / long hours / behind the scenes / support career there are a variety of socially acceptable job fields to enter. Secretary, nurse, day ca…
Women get to choose, most importantly perhaps they get to choose to stay home when a baby arrives.
They also get to choose jobs that earn less money, in exchange for more pleasantness and flexible work hours, because they have to worry less about being breadwinners for the whole family.