The problem with taking too many vitamins • Hacker News Board

Re: The problem with taking too many vitamins

#41

Post by Ras_ » Sun, Oct 20, 2013, 1:35 AM UTC

nagrom wrote: post #30

typicalrunt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In school, I was taught a mnemonic for fat soluble vitamins: DEAK. In other words, you want to "deke" [1] out of the way from these vitamins. You want to watch how much of vitamins D, E, A, K you ingest because they are fat soluble and you can easily overdose on them (unlike vitamin C). It's not a catch-all but it helps when you are taking vitamins. [1] it's a play on words and a homonym, "deke" comes from hockey whe…

Then again, there have been several studies [0] that show that many people in the northern hemisphere are deficient in vitamin D and that the deficiency could be the root of serious health problems. [0] E.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21310306

True, for example half of Finns receive less than recommended amount of vitamin D. To combat this dairy and edible fat products have received vitamin D supplements since 2003. For example skimmed milk (the most popular one) would otherwise have very little D because it gets removed in the process along with fat. First you take it out, then put it back in...

Re: The problem with taking too many vitamins

#42

Post by spikels » Sun, Oct 20, 2013, 2:35 AM UTC

I hope everyone understands that there is NO reliable evidence that any dietary supplements, including vitamins, provide any health benefits whatsoever to healthy people.[1] Occasionally individual studies will find an association between a particular positive outcome and a particular supplement, say breast cancer survival and vitamin D.[2] But it is just as likely to find an association with a negative outcome, say higher breast cancer risk in regular vitamin takers.[3] However none of these results has ever been found to be reproducible AFAIK.

For example a 2009 thorough review of all research on vitamin D and calcium supplements by US DHHS concluded:

The majority of the findings concerning vitamin D, calcium, or a combination of both nutrients on the different health outcomes were inconsistent.[4]

Most if not all of the studies initially finding these spurious correlations are large studies looking at lots of factors and outcomes. Unfortunately due to the nature of statistics there is always a small chance of a false positive or negative relationship and if many possible relationships are examined, such as in these large exploratory studies, it is almost a certainty that some false correlations will be found. This is why almost all of these studies say that confirmation in additional studies is required but this warning does not always make it into press reports. Occasionally a new relationship will be found that is confirmed in follow up studies. Unfortunately this confirmation has yet to be found for any supplement for any outcome in healthy people AFAIK.

FYI - Peter Norvig has a nice writeup of what to look out for when considering the results of a study.[5]

[1] Some supplements can help people with specific health issues but ask an expert such as your doctor as there are many false claims about supplements helping with specific conditions.

[2] http://www.medpagetoday.com/HematologyOncology/BreastCancer/...

[3] http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/183880.php

[4] http://www.ahrq.gov/research/findings/evidence-based-reports...

[5] http://norvig.com/experiment-design.html

Re: The problem with taking too many vitamins

#43

Post by Someone » Sun, Oct 20, 2013, 9:07 AM UTC

spikels wrote: post #42

I hope everyone understands that there is NO reliable evidence that any dietary supplements, including vitamins, provide any health benefits whatsoever to healthy people.[1] Occasionally individual studies will find an association between a particular positive outcome and a particular supplement, say breast cancer survival and vitamin D.[2] But it is just as likely to find an association with a negative outcome, say…

"I hope everyone understands that there is NO reliable evidence that any dietary supplements, including vitamins, provide any health benefits whatsoever to healthy people."

I sort of agree with that, but I also know it is kind of a tautology. 'Healthy people' can't become 'healthier people', by definition. Yet, every healthy person can imagine himself, but slightly better: better vision, more willpower, stronger, faster runner, more intelligent, etc.

Because of that, there are no 'Healthiest people'. Even the hypothetical person who wins the decathlon at the Olympics at the age of 40 in the year they won their fifth Nobel will have something to desire (a bald spot? Feeling more tired after exercise than he used to be?). In that sense, nobody is truly healthy.

That is what all the supplement sellers play at.

Re: The problem with taking too many vitamins

#44

Post by spikels » Mon, Oct 21, 2013, 1:14 AM UTC

Someone wrote: post #43

spikels wrote: post #42

I hope everyone understands that there is NO reliable evidence that any dietary supplements, including vitamins, provide any health benefits whatsoever to healthy people.[1] Occasionally individual studies will find an association between a particular positive outcome and a particular supplement, say breast cancer survival and vitamin D.[2] But it is just as likely to find an association with a negative outcome, say…

"I hope everyone understands that there is NO reliable evidence that any dietary supplements, including vitamins, provide any health benefits whatsoever to healthy people." I sort of agree with that, but I also know it is kind of a tautology. 'Healthy people' can't become 'healthier people', by definition. Yet, every healthy person can imagine himself, but slightly better: better vision, more willpower, stronger, fas…

This is not a tautology. Every "healthy" person will someday die and will often develop cancer or heart disease or have a stroke or have one of thousands of rarer medical conditions. If any supplements actually worked they would prolong life or reduce the occurrence of any of these diseases. All of these out comes can be measured in a properly designed study. So far there is no reliable evidence that supplements help with any of these outcomes.