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Microsoft Mission Impossible

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Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#41

Post by ZeroGravitas »

bane wrote: post #6

One of the really surprising things about Microsoft is that despite all the caustic internal politics, CEO antics, missteps, misfires, a business model designed to extract maximum money from everybody, and even questionable development and design practices, on occasion really great software (and hardware) comes out of there. World class, amazing, top of the industry with no true peers. For example, despite all of the…

If you had a team of the best programmers on earth, and big money backing, could you build a Facebook competitor? A new video codec? A new Free Software kernel?

Presumably one of the first discussions would bring up "network effects" and you'd conclude that a frontal assault on these markets would be suicidal. Then you'd find some other project to pursue.

Same goes for Office. It's not "good" any more than a private railroad/electricity/telephone system is "good", it's just sheltered from direct competition by network effects. And without direct competition you really have no basis to judge it on.

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#42

Post by vetinari »

mtinkerhess wrote: post #15
quesera wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear what your other examples are, but that doesn't surprise me at all. If OpenOffice (etc) ever had comparable staffing (quantity and variety, not even questioning quality) that MSOffice has had for 15-20 years, I'd expect more comparable results.

Visual Studio is probably the best way to write C++. Windows is probably the best operating system for the enterprise and is ahead of OS X and Linux in bringing a desktop OS to tablets and touch laptops. C# is arguably the best language for writing enterprise applications. Xbox arguably won the console war of the current generation. Kinect is the only consumer product like it. Surface Pro is probably the best desktop…

You don't seem to notice that many of the categories you mentioned are irrelevant. Maybe being microsoftie clouds your view?

Windows may be best _desktop_ operating system for enterprise, not _best_ operating system. Subtle difference. OSX and Linux are not bringing desktop OS to tablets and touch laptops, because nobody wants desktop OS there, everybody wants tablet optimized OS. C# may be syntactically best language for enterprise, but it's ecosystem is lacking compared to other languages (for too long, it was use-MS-only-frameworks-and-products-land, so nobody bothers now). It is disputable whether Xbox won the game console war, but even if it did, this is a niche market. Kinect may be very unique, but we are talking niche in the niche. Surface Pro may be the best desktop replacement tablet, but nobody wants to replace desktop with tablets, just like nobody wants to replace truck with sport car.

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#43

Post by michaelt »

skrebbel wrote: post #25

I don't understand the fatalist mood in articles like these. Microsoft is still a very healthy company, and now they finally got that healthy competition. Competition is good for the market, it's good for us consumers. Hell, it might even be good for Microsoft in the long run. I'm admittedly a bit of a Microsoft fanboy, but I doubt that would've been the case if MS had still been the monopolist steam roller it once w…

Many people model technology adoption as an S curve (with its differential, the adoption rate, resembling a normal distribution): https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=technology+curve&tbm=isch They believe Microsoft's main revenue-generating technologies (Microsoft and Office) are at the 'mature' or 'stagnation' part of the curve.

This is in line with this ten-year stock price graph: http://goo.gl/yyUwgr

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#44

Post by josephlord »

> In an earlier incarnation I saw Microsoft play legal hardball against anyone who tried to sell PCs with both Windows and another OS installed at the factory…)

I know they played commercial hardball with people wanting to offer options other than MS operating systems. Does anyone have any information about them playing legal hardball (lawsuits or threats)?

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#45

Post by lokedhs »

mtinkerhess wrote: post #15
quesera wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to hear what your other examples are, but that doesn't surprise me at all. If OpenOffice (etc) ever had comparable staffing (quantity and variety, not even questioning quality) that MSOffice has had for 15-20 years, I'd expect more comparable results.

Visual Studio is probably the best way to write C++. Windows is probably the best operating system for the enterprise and is ahead of OS X and Linux in bringing a desktop OS to tablets and touch laptops. C# is arguably the best language for writing enterprise applications. Xbox arguably won the console war of the current generation. Kinect is the only consumer product like it. Surface Pro is probably the best desktop…

Yes, I think it's arguable that MS won the console war.

Could you tell me what you are measuring to reach that conclusion? Last I looked, the only category where the Xbox was ahead is US sales, and even there, they were only marginally ahead of the PS3.

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#46

Post by kbart »

adventured wrote: post #32
nemothekid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>World class, amazing, top of the industry with no true peers. I'd argue you could say company with billions of dollars and the prestige to hire world class programmers. Windows Phone is an amazing piece of software, and if we got it 3-4 years earlier, it may have stood a chance.

It could still stand a chance. Microsoft needs to do two things. 1) Give the mobile group vastly more independence to escape the dying desktop business. 2) Make Windows Phone compatible with Android applications. Bribe every major hardware vendor to put out a big new line of Windows Phones to launch with said compatibility. There would no doubt be big tradeoffs in doing this, but it'd be worth it, and would make use…

> Their currently mediocre strategy has delivered some success in Europe, so imagine what a good strategy could deliver.

I would argue that this "success" is Microsoft's achievement. It happened just because Windows Phone was made by Nokia, which has (had) a good name and market share in Europe. And we know how it turned out for them..

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#47

Post by juhanima »

josephlord wrote: post #44

> In an earlier incarnation I saw Microsoft play legal hardball against anyone who tried to sell PCs with both Windows and another OS installed at the factory…) I know they played commercial hardball with people wanting to offer options other than MS operating systems. Does anyone have any information about them playing legal hardball (lawsuits or threats)?

How about this one?

http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

The relevant chapter is III.H.64: "An aspect of Microsoft's pricing behavior that, while not tending to prove monopoly power, is consistent with it is the fact that the firm charges different OEMs different prices for Windows, depending on the degree to which the individual OEMs comply with Microsoft's wishes. "

EDIT: Replaced the link to the final version in stead of a proposal, added the quote

EDIT2: Duh, I totally missed your point. Yes, they have resorted to also that tactics lately. Just a few high-profile cases.

- Microsoft sues Barnes & Noble over patents - http://mashable.com/2011/03/21/microsoft-sues-barnes-noble/

- Microsoft sues Salesforce - http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20005306-56.html

- Microsoft sues Motorola - http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireless/articles/20101001/1356...

IMHO especially the B&N case is telling. A very sad story.

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#48

Post by bane »

vetinari wrote: post #42
mtinkerhess wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visual Studio is probably the best way to write C++. Windows is probably the best operating system for the enterprise and is ahead of OS X and Linux in bringing a desktop OS to tablets and touch laptops. C# is arguably the best language for writing enterprise applications. Xbox arguably won the console war of the current generation. Kinect is the only consumer product like it. Surface Pro is probably the best desktop…

You don't seem to notice that many of the categories you mentioned are irrelevant. Maybe being microsoftie clouds your view? Windows may be best _desktop_ operating system for enterprise, not _best_ operating system. Subtle difference. OSX and Linux are not bringing desktop OS to tablets and touch laptops, because nobody wants desktop OS there, everybody wants tablet optimized OS. C# may be syntactically best languag…

I find it hard to take a comment seriously that says the console video game market is a niche market. I mean, it's only a what, >$70 billion dollar a year industry (bigger than the entire film industry) and the fastest growing segment of the entire media market globally?

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#49

Post by bane »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #41
bane wrote: post #6

One of the really surprising things about Microsoft is that despite all the caustic internal politics, CEO antics, missteps, misfires, a business model designed to extract maximum money from everybody, and even questionable development and design practices, on occasion really great software (and hardware) comes out of there. World class, amazing, top of the industry with no true peers. For example, despite all of the…

If you had a team of the best programmers on earth, and big money backing, could you build a Facebook competitor? A new video codec? A new Free Software kernel? Presumably one of the first discussions would bring up "network effects" and you'd conclude that a frontal assault on these markets would be suicidal. Then you'd find some other project to pursue. Same goes for Office. It's not "good" any more than a private…

> a Facebook competitor

actually yes. There's lots of things that I, and many of my friends wish, Facebook did that it doesn't do...and many things it does that we wish it didn't. Enough to build a competitor? Definitely. Would it be popular? Who knows?

Re: Microsoft Mission Impossible

#50

Post by vetinari »

bane wrote: post #48
vetinari wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to notice that many of the categories you mentioned are irrelevant. Maybe being microsoftie clouds your view? Windows may be best _desktop_ operating system for enterprise, not _best_ operating system. Subtle difference. OSX and Linux are not bringing desktop OS to tablets and touch laptops, because nobody wants desktop OS there, everybody wants tablet optimized OS. C# may be syntactically best languag…

I find it hard to take a comment seriously that says the console video game market is a niche market. I mean, it's only a what, >$70 billion dollar a year industry (bigger than the entire film industry) and the fastest growing segment of the entire media market globally?

Compared to rest of computing? Yes, it is, we are comparing their relative, not absolute sizes.
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