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Ask HN: Who has gotten a job with absolutely no connections?
41–48 of 48 posts
Re: Ask HN: Who has gotten a job with absolutely no connections?
#42As for difficulty, it was 5 interviews including coding exercises, so I guess I did okay.
Re: Ask HN: Who has gotten a job with absolutely no connections?
#43my current job had no connections involved. in fact, i turned down a perfectly good job in favor of this one simply because it had connections involved. i wanted the job that i earned instead of the one i was handed. but, i'm kind of hardheaded about that type of thing.
Think about it from a company's perspective. They can hire somebody because he performed well for a few hours in an interview, or they can hire somebody who performed equally well in that interview, and comes highly recommended by a respected staff member. The staff member probably knows the applicant very well, so its basically like having the applicant be interviewed for months instead of just once. Sure the staff…
Maybe I've just been around the wrong people, but this seems the primary motivation behind the recommendation one friend would give on behalf of another. Competence never entered the picture; even when I would ask about it, I was always told "it's not what you know, it's who you know," as if to reassure themselves as much as to admonish me. In some cases, the recommendations are truly noble-minded, but never underestimate the social pressure people have to practice nepotism.
I will caveat this by saying I've been hired in one or two places where the recruitment tango started through a recommendation. One of those places, it stopped mattering as soon as the phone screen began. The other, well, the person who recommended me was the hiring manager, so I'm not sure that counts. :-)
Re: Ask HN: Who has gotten a job with absolutely no connections?
#44I got my current job--my first out of college--without any connections. It's a kernel programming job. I got it because I was able to talk intelligently about writing distributed systems and what a node-local kernel can do to facilitate distributed user-space applications. That said, never underestimate the power of connections. I got my first internship because I "knew a guy who knew a guy". You never know when your…
Avoid overestimating the power of them as well; don't always assume it is who you know, or that who you know will make the experience better. When people err, in my experience, they seem to err in the direction of overestimating. They don't even bother to consider opportunities unless there is a connection involved, and they ignore red-flags they discover along the recruitment path simply because they have a connection there who downplays them. Often as not, they end up unhappy, but suffer through it because their only out is through more connections they don't yet have.
Sometimes, you have to look beyond the people you know.
Re: Ask HN: Who has gotten a job with absolutely no connections?
#45my current job had no connections involved. in fact, i turned down a perfectly good job in favor of this one simply because it had connections involved. i wanted the job that i earned instead of the one i was handed. but, i'm kind of hardheaded about that type of thing.
A job that you got via connections who know and trust your technical ability is an earned job.
For instance, a secretary who has a friend who is "really good with computers" who submits her resume for a job as a DBA, and that friend gets hired on the basis of that recommendation -- yes, the friend was someone I knew. I guess you could say the friend earned the job based on the criteria put forward, but not on any basis that is good for her, the company, or the DBA profession as a whole.
Re: Ask HN: Who has gotten a job with absolutely no connections?
#46I have gotten my last 2 jobs with no connections whatsoever. Both were software developer positions for languages/frameworks that I had no experience with. My advice is to write a killer cover letter. The cover letter is the most important part of any job search. In mine I explained my side projects that I work on and my insatiable love of learning new technologies. I was up front in both cover letters, stating that…
I disagree. I think the most important parts of any job search are attitude and aptitude. Some background: I started looking for a new job in early February of this year after the company I previously worked for shut down. At first I was worried that with the recession it might take a while to get new work so I got very serious about my new "job" of finding a job. I found one 3 weeks later without any connections (via craigslist) and I'm pretty sure it was because of the effort I put into:
- ensuring my resume would appeal to the kind of people I wanted to work with
- ranking and filtering position postings into categories based on how well they matched the kind of work I enjoy, the kind of work I'm currently good at, the salary I wanted, future opportunities and general working conditions
- writing specific cover letters explaining my background, my understanding of what the position required, why I wanted to do that job and what kinds of things I would do when I started.
- spending time preparing for interviews and studying things I believed it would be worthwhile to demonstrate in person
- ensuring my references were fully informed about my situation, understood my view of the companies I was considering and were easy to contact by potential employers without delay
When I started my search, I screened around 100 postings down into three 5-element lists (A/B/C) and sent a custom cover letter and resume to the top 10. This led to 4 interviews and 3 offers in the next 3 weeks and although I had to turn down two of the offers, I've kept in regular contact with them and have been asked to keep them in mind if my situation changes. I'm pretty certain that every one of the things I mentioned above was essential in this outcome.
Ironically for the past month I've been spending a few hours a week where I work screening and ranking resumes, conducting telephone interviews and making recommendations to our management. Although I'd prefer to be coding during this time, I know from experience that I'll be much happier in the long run if I help the company pick good people. So far I've been applying the same criteria I would want applied to me and before I agreed to do any reviews I made sure that my boss and our HR person agreed to:
- 5 specific responsibilities for each position
- 8 short questions we would send the candidate before we talk to them on the phone
- A 20 question, 45 minute written exam for in-person interviews.
Regardless of what their cover letter says, the first thing I look for is whether or not the candidate's experience and background is appropriate for the job. About 1/2 the candidates are immediately eliminated without a thought. Then I look more closely at the details and read their cover letter and assign a number from 1-3 for each responsibility indicating how well their stated experience and goals match that responsibility and record the details in a spreadsheet.
The top 1/3 of the candidates get selected for followup calls. When the call is scheduled, the candidate is emailed the questions we'll cover related to the responsibilities. Although technical in nature, none of the questions have right or wrong answers. They are intended to give the candidate an opportunity to demonstrate their ability to understand our company's goals and explain how they would fit in. Although the phone interview is limited to 20 minutes and candidates have to be clear and to the point, they are also offered the opportunity to follow up with anything they would like to say in email (although surprisingly few do so). So far only about 1/3 of the remaining candidates have been asked to come in for the interview and written exam and we've been pleased with all the ones that have.