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The Learjet repo man

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Re: The Learjet repo man

#41

Post by tptacek »

Dilpil wrote: post #38
tptacek wrote: post #29

His firm earns in the "low-to-mid seven figures". Call me crazy, but I think starting a tech consulting firm might be a happier way to get at that kind of money than facing down shotgun-wielding militiamen and flying off in a strange jet. The numbers in this post kind of don't add up: * His first repo gig got him $145k. * Recovering a string of badly-maintained helicopters got him a "tidy six figures". * A good year…

People in these lines of work generally aren't in it purely for the money. The money is an important part, as it legitimizes them as the victor, but generally there's an appetite for risk and excitement.

I don't know that I buy this. Contractor rates in Iraq are much higher than this guy's (especially if you take a few minutes and SWAG out the "billable hours" that must go into a single reclamation). You could easily argue that Iraq contractors face much less risk.

Re: The Learjet repo man

#42

Post by joshwa »

sokoloff wrote: post #40
mrduncan wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While taking control of the aircraft might be easier, I'd imagine that you'd be a lot easier to track via radar. That's not to mention that the Air Force is probably going to assume you're a terrorist and I doubt you're going to outrun any fighter jets. Edit: I was referring to outright theft above, not repoing.

Nonsense. Squawk 1200, and once airborne, you're free to use the radios. The point about not using the radio on the ground was to ensure that you could actually get the craft off the ground without the current owners or FBO knowing what you were up to.

a) that's assuming the a/c you're stealing isn't in class B airspace

b) atc will probably notice when your 1200 blip is doing 250kts and climbing at 2000'/min.

c) this also assumes you can figure out how to turn off xponder mode S (transmitting your 24-bit ICAO address) back to mode C or mode A

Re: The Learjet repo man

#43

Post by DanielBMarkham »

ajross wrote: post #36
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a couple of counter-stories, an instructor I once had asked another instructor how long he'd last in a high-performance twin that he hadn't checked out in. "About two minutes" was the answer Another _very_ seasoned instructor I know confided in me that he was concerned that a private student with a very expensive airplane wanted highly-technical training and he didn't feel like he was up for it. Now this is coming…

The distinction there is an issue of risk analysis. Airlines pay big bucks because every minor goof is a potential disaster. There are huge stakes, both personal and financial resting on every decision in the cockpit. As a result, a "culture of safety" exists in pretty much all of aviation. This is a good thing. A community of pilots trained to cross all their t's and dot all their i's as a matter of instinct is bett…

He may also be bringing in crews that have checked-out in the equipment. The article kind of implies that as part of one of the stories.

Risk analysis covers a lot of ground. John Denver lost his life because of a fuel valve that was in an awkward spot. People have flown perfectly good jet airplanes into the sides of mountains on bright, sunny, clear days while screwing around with the flight computer. More people than you can shake a stick at have gotten killed by simply running out of gas.

Not a lot of guys want to go to jail over an airplane, but people dent up airframes every day. Aviation is a great sport, hobby, and profession, but it is also very unforgiving. If I had to pick one, I'd take the angry guys over unfamiliar complex systems, especially in hard weather.

You could argue the point either way, but since he's still alive he's obviously played the odds well. I wonder, however, if all super-repo men are of the same caliber.

Re: The Learjet repo man

#45

Post by chrisbolt »

Popovich is a super repo man, one of a handful of specialists who get the call when a bank wants back its Gulfstream II jet from, say, a small army of neo-Nazi freaks.

Anyone wonder why the bank is lending money for private jets to neo-Nazis?

Re: The Learjet repo man

#46

Post by sketerpot »

derefr wrote: post #8
jtuyen wrote: post #5

Someone should make a movie script about this guy!

As low-brow (or pop-cultural) as this comment might be, I can't help but make the analogy: repo men are the modern day ninja. Being a ninja was never about martial arts; it was about subterfuge, and about protecting the assets of your lord by any means necessary. In the modern age, the lords are the banks.

From what I recall, being a ninja was about being sneaky and undignified enough to succeed. Being a ninja was about dressing up as a gardener so nobody would suspect that you were about to shiv them with an abnormally pointy trowel. Being a ninja was about setting off firecrackers as a distraction -- people assume that explosions are important, and ninjas knew this. Being a ninja was about hiding in an outhouse so you could assassinate some dude from inside of his toilet (holy shit!). Ninjas were clever bastards, not necessarily badasses.

Re: The Learjet repo man

#47

Post by sokoloff »

joshwa wrote: post #42
sokoloff wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Squawk 1200, and once airborne, you're free to use the radios. The point about not using the radio on the ground was to ensure that you could actually get the craft off the ground without the current owners or FBO knowing what you were up to.

a) that's assuming the a/c you're stealing isn't in class B airspace b) atc will probably notice when your 1200 blip is doing 250kts and climbing at 2000'/min. c) this also assumes you can figure out how to turn off xponder mode S (transmitting your 24-bit ICAO address) back to mode C or mode A

The entire article appeared to be presuming that ATC was only concerned with "safe, orderly and expeditious" flow of air traffic and not with murky ownership of the aircraft. In my (non-repo man) experience, that is all that ATC cares about.

ATC won't care about #3 ever. If you're not in class B, ATC won't care about #2. Jets are allowed to fly VFR, too; they just don't very often. In class B, you can get your clearance by cell phone, and start using the radios once you get to the movement area (or at a non-primary class B airport, when taking the active).

Re: The Learjet repo man

#48

Post by seanc »

carbon8 wrote: post #22
randallsquared wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you can get a warrant in mere hours in some cases, and it takes hours for this guy to even arrive, I don't think that's true. There is some reason that they can't or won't just ask the police to secure the plane, though, and my guess is that the reason is more that it's legally unclear whose plane it is. That is, in some cases, this is legally just theft that's papered over later.

There are legal frameworks in place for repossession. It's not just and ad hoc grab and run situation. As I understand it, it's indeed true police usually can't get involved beyond keeping the peace since it's a civil issue and they open themselves up to civil liability, but it's very different from theft.

Yeah, it seemed to me that the ability of his organization to rapidly process paperwork was more important to his bottom line than the bad-assery of stealing aircraft.

Most of the time they just fill out the paperwork and go get the plane. But getting the paperwork straight and finding the thing are really hard to do unless you've got a good team of experts ready on a moment's notice. Which he has. But that would make for boring TV.

Re: The Learjet repo man

#49

Post by e4m »

chrisbolt wrote: post #45

Popovich is a super repo man, one of a handful of specialists who get the call when a bank wants back its Gulfstream II jet from, say, a small army of neo-Nazi freaks. Anyone wonder why the bank is lending money for private jets to neo-Nazis?

The banks are not aware of the underlying organizations. Even if they were, they probably would not care. They only see the lawyer in the suit at the loan office signing paperwork on behalf of XYZ, LLC.

Re: The Learjet repo man

#50

Post by philwelch »

tptacek wrote: post #41
Dilpil wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in these lines of work generally aren't in it purely for the money. The money is an important part, as it legitimizes them as the victor, but generally there's an appetite for risk and excitement.

I don't know that I buy this. Contractor rates in Iraq are much higher than this guy's (especially if you take a few minutes and SWAG out the "billable hours" that must go into a single reclamation). You could easily argue that Iraq contractors face much less risk.

This guy makes a market rate on the value of the bank repossessing the jet. Iraqi contractors make what the US Government is willing to pay defense contractors. That's the difference.
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