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The Future of AngularJS

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Re: The Future of AngularJS

#41

Post by markkanof »

lucisferre wrote: post #38
JDDunn9 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate IE compatibility too, but there's still a lot of people using them; ~5% use IE8, ~2 use IE7. What business is willing to give up 7% of their revenue?

Depends on a few more things: 1) If it's actually 7% of your revenue as opposed to just global traffic stats. 2) If entrenched IE customers would actually stop using your product rather than just install another browser. 3) If the cost of maintaining shims, backwards compatibility and ultimately just falling behind the competition in both experience and features is less than that potential 7% market.

And to expand on your points, is there anyone that is an entrenched IE 7 or 8 user because they just love that browser. My guess would be not, and that instead they are just using that because it's the latest version of IE that they can get on their OS. Anecdotally, I've seen a number of large organizations that I work with allow installation of new third party browsers even though they stay at an old version of IE for compatibility reasons.

So my point is that of that 7% that are using older versions of IE, it's probably a much smaller number that would not be willing or able to use an alternate browser to run your web application if they find value in it.

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#42

Post by saidajigumi »

JDDunn9 wrote: post #35
saidajigumi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you must support outdated versions of IE then your future is grim. The working tools you have today are all you will ever get. An expectation for ongoing framework support for these legacy environments is wholly unrealistic.

I hate IE compatibility too, but there's still a lot of people using them; ~5% use IE8, ~2 use IE7. What business is willing to give up 7% of their revenue?

To clarify, I'm fully aware that there's business to be had related to legacy browsers. I'm not arguing against the business case. If you've got a significant customer base with this need, then you'll have to choose tools that let you deliver.

To rephrase, makers of new tools, as a rule, tend to be forward-looking. This is what I'd expect. As corollary to this, at some point it no longer makes sense to support legacy technology. This produces a tradeoff within the aforementioned business case: is it worth the product constraints, effectively an externally imposed technical debt, to support that part of your market? How will you fare versus your competitors going forward if you do, or do not, support the legacy tail?

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#43

Post by yoshokatana »

palmer wrote: post #19
JDDunn9 wrote: post #14

Unfortunately, I didn't see improved documentation in their future vision... I'm not sure how a lot of those ideas will work with compatibility with older versions of IE. You already have issues using the element tags for new attributes.

You can get around the IE problem by using classes to call your directives rather than element tags. isn't as pretty, but it works in IE8. http://docs.angularjs.org/guide/ie Agree that the documentation is still lacking.

Attributes also work for directives, though I like using ng-cloak as a class. I think in the future (next year, when my company will probably drop ie8 support) I'll start using custom tags.

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#44

Post by adelevie »

Being able to avoid $scope.$apply() will certainly be nice.

As it stands now, if you want to leave the Angular reservation and use something like the Parse JS SDK (which is a customized set of Backbone models) your code will be littered with $scope.$apply(). Not very DRY, and also adds, from the dev's point of view, a needless level of nesting functions.

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#45

Post by dougmccune »

JDDunn9 wrote: post #35
saidajigumi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you must support outdated versions of IE then your future is grim. The working tools you have today are all you will ever get. An expectation for ongoing framework support for these legacy environments is wholly unrealistic.

I hate IE compatibility too, but there's still a lot of people using them; ~5% use IE8, ~2 use IE7. What business is willing to give up 7% of their revenue?

This varies widely by industry. We sell software to insurance companies. 40% of our pageviews are IE8. Sure, we can choose to ignore those customers, but in our world that's a lot of money to leave on the table.

I'm not saying I think everyone should be building for IE8. I wish we could stop. But it's also not always just as easy as saying give up 5% of your potential users. The HN crowd is so often consumer focused and incredibly out of touch with the enterprise markets (this is not an argument against the parent comment, but an overall trend I notice on HN).

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#46

Post by olegp »

What I want to know about the future of AngularJS is: what is the state of server side rendering? We have some of our own ideas as to how this could work at https://starthq.com but I am hesitant to start implementing anything so as to avoid duplication of effort.

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#47

Post by lifeisstillgood »

dougmccune wrote: post #45
JDDunn9 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate IE compatibility too, but there's still a lot of people using them; ~5% use IE8, ~2 use IE7. What business is willing to give up 7% of their revenue?

This varies widely by industry. We sell software to insurance companies. 40% of our pageviews are IE8. Sure, we can choose to ignore those customers, but in our world that's a lot of money to leave on the table. I'm not saying I think everyone should be building for IE8. I wish we could stop. But it's also not always just as easy as saying give up 5% of your potential users. The HN crowd is so often consumer focused…

as a supporting piece of anec-data I worked for an education startup in the uk - and we had to support IE 6 (six) as upwards of 50% of our userbase of high schools had locked in contracts with suppliers like RIM (not blackberry) and could not upgrade without incurring costs - which meant it did not happen.

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#48

Post by atjoslin »

wmf wrote: post #24
dmak wrote: post #22

I was really excited when I saw the multiple responses possible for a given request

This does sound useful, but I'm not sure what it has to do with Angular. Are they going to create more resources with the assumption that HTTP 2.0 will fix it?

They're saying it will help single page apps in general I think

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#49

Post by woah »

JDDunn9 wrote: post #35
saidajigumi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you must support outdated versions of IE then your future is grim. The working tools you have today are all you will ever get. An expectation for ongoing framework support for these legacy environments is wholly unrealistic.

I hate IE compatibility too, but there's still a lot of people using them; ~5% use IE8, ~2 use IE7. What business is willing to give up 7% of their revenue?

As soon as it is impossible to browse the web with old ie, users will be forced to switch. If you support old ie, you are contributing to it continuing to hang around.

Re: The Future of AngularJS

#50

Post by DigitalSea »

1qaz2wsx3edc wrote: post #29
alexandros wrote: post #15

What I don't understand is all the whining about posting slides. This is fresh off the presses, answers hot questions in the angular community, and obviously people are upvoting it. If you're aware of what's happenning in Angular, every slide stands on its own and has useful info. Can we please give all the moaning about format a rest please?

I wouldn't call this fresh off the presses. The angular team talked about many of these points back in June. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W13qDdJDHp8 It's really exciting. This is a good summary of the future though.

To be fair, this is the first time I've seen this. Not everyone gets to see everything as it comes out and I would argue that June (3 months ago) isn't exactly old news. Having said that I am really excited to see the future of Javascript isn't as ugly and hacky as it currently is.
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