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Why I'm Getting a PhD

johnbender.us

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Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#41

Post by aaronbrethorst »

geebee wrote: post #34

I truly wish you the best of luck, and for an excellent outcome. One thing - you just can't say "why I'm getting a PhD", even from an elite school, the way you'd say "why I'm getting a law, medical, or business degree". Even if you've been admitted to an elite program, you can really only say "why I'm rolling the dice on the possibility of getting a PhD". At elite programs, there is essentially no involuntary attriti…

> Attrition rates for engineering PhD students appear to be about 33%. This (to me, atrocious number) is way better than science or humanities.

Perhaps this is because an engineering Ph.D. student is far better positioned to get a high-paying job than their 1L or med school counterparts. The engineering candidate doesn't need to be there to get a job.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#42

Post by enraged_camel »

burntsushi wrote: post #18

Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me b…

I don't have a PhD, but I hear it depends a lot on the school, the field of study, and most importantly, the mentor they assign you. Your mentor specifically has the ability to make your life hell and completely obstruct your learning.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#43

Post by jlees »

hopeless wrote: post #13

I wish you the best of luck. I went into my PhD with totally the wrong reasoning and eventually left after 3 years. All I can say is: the PhD is about the process not the end results ; and it's a qualification to conduct research and nothing more This was my collected rant: http://jamie.ideasasylum.com/2008/07/things-i-learnt-during-...

Your experience mirrors mine in many ways (especially Hunt the Supervisor.. oh, the fun we had). Sounds like you were/are also in the UK -- 3-4 years for a PhD is considered fast over here in the US!

I think the most unexpected part of my PhD experience was the sheer mind-numbing slog that research can become, either your own project or assisting your supervisor. Writing a pretty easy script and then running it 1000 times with different variables on different datasets. Reviewing a metric ton of papers for a forced lit review. etc.

I loved the freedom of thought, and learned a lot about what I was interested in and motivated by. I loved the structure of academia, the familiar support networks, and I found I really enjoyed teaching. I particularly liked thinking up bizarre ideas and having the skills and tools at my disposal to see if anyone had done it before and quickly knock up a messy but functional way to test it out.

For me, it boiled down to wanting to do work on messy, imperfect data that came from the real world, which was at odds with the highly curated and neat datasets that can get you nice, repeatable results suitable for a PhD. Would I have stuck it out if I could have done the research I really wanted? Having seen friends go through the writing up stage and break under the pressure, I'm not sure. I'm not intending to go back and finish it, that's for sure.

Side note: the font size for your Joel on Software quote is insanely large (Chrome/Windows).

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#44

Post by ColinWright »

themodelplumber wrote: post #37
ColinWright wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as I submitted it I went back to remove it. But thanks for calling me on it anyway. But perhaps you can find a more diplomatic way to say the same thing. When someone says something that's clearly an opinion, and wrong in my experience, and follows it with "Trust me," it's a guarantee that I will regard everything they say with suspicion. Should that not be the case? How else should I point out the consequenc…

Ah, so that was a response to the commenter's "trust me" remark. Perhaps "why should I trust you over some thousands of grad students," but it's difficult to gauge the amount of thought or research the commenter puts into "trust me," which is thrown around pretty liberally in modern English. When a friend says, "trust me, don't drink the water," and clearly his experience with water was not representative, if you wan…

Noted - thx.

WRT "utterance", it's probably a hangover from my lojban days. Different cultures use language differently. In my context, "utterance" is a common term, whereas "Trust me" is taken more sriously than you imply. Awareness of such issues is valuable - I'll look out for my usages of "utterance" in the future.

Thank you.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#45

Post by blah32497 »

hayksaakian wrote: post #40
glesica wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS student here (maybe PhD in the future). This is exactly why I go to school. I enjoy the learning process. It's not about acquiring skills to make money, it's about learning interesting things in an interesting and creative environment where I'm free to explore to a certain extent. I think a reasonable way to describe it is that Google has 20% time, in school I have roughly 80% time to explore my interests. Sure, I…

> I may need money someday, but right now I don't, so I might as well take advantage of the situation. That's partly why many people see a Phd as a luxury or as something not entirely useful or necessary. Many people NEED to make money RIGHT NOW.

In the US you get paid to do a PhD - either as a research assistant, grants/fellowships, or if you get the shit end of the stick - TA'ing

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#46

Post by enraged_camel »

glesica wrote: post #35
burntsushi wrote: post #18

Is anyone else doing their PhD (or did their PhD) just because they thought it was a lot of fun and a great way to learn a lot in a short time period? Not that it's the only way to do any of those things, but I've found the lifestyle of a graduate student in CS to be extremely appealing. My mentor once suggested that a PhD is only worthwhile if you plan on doing research after you graduate. But as he got to know me b…

MS student here (maybe PhD in the future). This is exactly why I go to school. I enjoy the learning process. It's not about acquiring skills to make money, it's about learning interesting things in an interesting and creative environment where I'm free to explore to a certain extent. I think a reasonable way to describe it is that Google has 20% time, in school I have roughly 80% time to explore my interests. Sure, I…

>>MS student here (maybe PhD in the future). This is exactly why I go to school. I enjoy the learning process. It's not about acquiring skills to make money, it's about learning interesting things in an interesting and creative environment where I'm free to explore to a certain extent.

To me, this process started only after I left the safe and controlled environment that is college. Graduation was like someone lifting the veil: I suddenly started seeing with great clarity and had true freedom in terms of what I wanted to pursue learning (as opposed to only the illusion of freedom given in an academic setting).

I'd say the only advantage academia has is being surrounded by other smart people. Especially now that I live in Southern California, where big biceps are seen as more important than a capable mind, I miss the college environment a lot. But that's the only reason.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#47

Post by tensor »

javert wrote: post #23

I feel like he's leaving out something quite important, which is what he plans to do once he has his PhD. Professor (research or teaching?) or industry (big business or startups?)?

This isn't actually very important. At least if you are in STEM. The point of the PhD is to learn. That's valuable to all career paths.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#48

Post by geebee »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #41
geebee wrote: post #34

I truly wish you the best of luck, and for an excellent outcome. One thing - you just can't say "why I'm getting a PhD", even from an elite school, the way you'd say "why I'm getting a law, medical, or business degree". Even if you've been admitted to an elite program, you can really only say "why I'm rolling the dice on the possibility of getting a PhD". At elite programs, there is essentially no involuntary attriti…

> Attrition rates for engineering PhD students appear to be about 33%. This (to me, atrocious number) is way better than science or humanities. Perhaps this is because an engineering Ph.D. student is far better positioned to get a high-paying job than their 1L or med school counterparts. The engineering candidate doesn't need to be there to get a job.

There are all kinds of reasons. I'd certainly agree that what you pointed out is one of them.

That said... then why is the engineering PhD attrition rate lower than in science, which is in turn lower than humanities?

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#49

Post by cossatot »

priley wrote: post #4

It's totally not worth it unless you want to be a professor. Trust me.

Disclaimer: I am in geoscience, not CS, so my situation isn't the same as the blogger's. But much of the important things should still apply.

There are a lot of sacrifices to be made, it's really not for everyone, and timing is pretty important, but...

Though I'm not sold on becoming a professor, getting my PhD was a great experience, and really has set me up for a lot that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. Especially in the US system, where most students are required to do some teaching and a good amount of coursework in addition to rigorous research projects, there is a lot of personal/intellectual/character development that comes from not only balancing these responsibilities but being able to intellectually parse, synthesize, improve, and communicate the content. Granted, there are other ways to get some of these experiences, and a lot is missing, but there is some serious Gestalt here. Qualifying exams, as fear-inducing and social-life-destroying as they may be during preparation, really do whip you into intellectual shape.

And if you are really interested in your research, and your methods of inquiry are sufficiently compatible with the 'establishment' to keep you out of too much trouble, the opportunity to immerse yourself in your interests is rare elsewhere, especially if there isn't a lot of immediate monetary incentive to study the subject.

I do industry consulting as well as academic research now, and the industry stuff is still considered 'research'. Neither position would be available to me without a PhD, and I like both jobs much more than the work I see people with BS/MS degrees doing (or what I see most faculty doing), even though I am currently a bit underpaid.

So I would say that it's not always bad practical choice, even for those who aren't interested in professorships. Again, not for everybody, but it seems like the OP knows what he's getting into.

Re: Why I'm Getting a PhD

#50

Post by tankbot »

As someone who assigns little value to academia I would like to say, without irony or pretense:

Best of luck to you, sir! I hope it's fulfilling, but never to the point of satisfaction! :)

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