There's so much wrong with that infographic I don't even know where to start. There is homework in Finland. I have no clue where that idea came from. The Finnish education system doesn't really match up well enough with the USA that "high school" can be compared. A Finnish student typically starts elementary school at 7, and spends 6 years in lower elementary. Then they move to upper elementary and spend 3 years ther…
There Is No Homework In Finland
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Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#42According to the article, 7% of Finnish children don't graduate high school, compared to 25% of US children. 22% of US children live in poverty. 4% of Finnish children live in poverty.[1] Strange. Furthermore, it's my personal policy that anyone who creates an infographic with a bar graph that starts at 520 and goes up to 570 should be ignored. Either they are trying to intentionally skew interpretation of the data b…
>Furthermore, it's my personal policy that anyone who creates an infographic with a bar graph that starts at 520 and goes up to 570 should be ignored. I strongly disagree. It's misleading to shift the bottom of the graph some , because it still looks like an unshifted graph. But if you shift the bottom of the graph all the way up to the lowest value, it does not look at all like an unshifted graph, and should not mis…
The point of a graph is to convey information in a concise and useful manner. The pencil graph does no such thing; it obfuscates. It's objectively worse than giving the reader the actual numbers.
edit: That said, for any standardized tests, the scores generally don't follow a linear pattern. (From what I understand, they usually follow a normal distribution.) I don't know enough about PISA to even say what a 563 means, and neither does the vast majority of this thing's audience. Without more detail, even that 7.9% isn't helpful.
Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#43In Finland, teachers are selected from the top 10% of college graduates.[1] In the US, nearly half of all new teachers come from the bottom third of college graduates.[2] Homework or no homework, Finnish students are learning directly from -- and personally interacting with -- some of the brightest minds in their country, every day. -- [1] http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands... [2] http://www…
I'm a Finn and I have three issues with that:
(A) I think high school would be a better translation for the upper secondary school, or gymnasium (1), in Finland. People usually graduate at age 19, and then apply to universities and other places.
(B) Well yes, the acceptance rates for B.Sc. and M.Sc. in education (to become a schoolteacher) are 5%–10%, but a lot of people, if not accepted, will reapply the next years, so this inflates the statistics.
(C) People who apply to study education, may not have been in the top 10% of their high school to begin with. (Some may have been, but a majority, no.)
Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#44I do note the irony of proclaiming the greatness of a lack of standardized tests (because they're useless, right?) in one infographic while using a standardized test to prove how great the Finnish education system is.
Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#45I am not sure what to make of this: 1. Sure high school graduation rates are higher in Finland than in the U.S., can you actually compare those across the board? Is what a high schooler studies in Finland the same as what they study in the U.S.? Maybe there are other societal issues why people drop out in the U.S. compared to Finland which I understand has a homogenous largely white population. 2. So there is no home…
Finland's success in Pisa scores is the reason that these practices are highlighted. Although homogenous population plays a role, Finnish scores are constantly better than almost equally homogenous Norway. However, the true reason behind the success of Finnish school system is yet unclear. One thing that certainly plays an important role is that teacher as a profession has traditionally been highly regarded in Finnis…
Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#46There's so much wrong with that infographic I don't even know where to start. There is homework in Finland. I have no clue where that idea came from. The Finnish education system doesn't really match up well enough with the USA that "high school" can be compared. A Finnish student typically starts elementary school at 7, and spends 6 years in lower elementary. Then they move to upper elementary and spend 3 years ther…
Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#47Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah, I was hoping to avoid this argument. If your students aren't doing well, having a "questionable" measurement is better than nothing.
Why do you take that as a given? A bad measurement can easily lead to you going further in the wrong direction.
Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#49I am not sure what to make of this: 1. Sure high school graduation rates are higher in Finland than in the U.S., can you actually compare those across the board? Is what a high schooler studies in Finland the same as what they study in the U.S.? Maybe there are other societal issues why people drop out in the U.S. compared to Finland which I understand has a homogenous largely white population. 2. So there is no home…
1. You can compare PISA tests as stated in the infographic. 3. My mother has a master degree in math, she is a high school teacher. Her understanding of maths due to her degree sets her apart from the normal teachers with a educational math degree, or any other degree which was not math orientated. You can see in her yearly results she is a good math teacher. I understand this does not hold true for all people. But s…
I am not clear how taking graduate courses in Mathematics which can range anything from Measure Theory, Abstract algebra to Grad. Real Analysis helps you become a better teacher to high schoolers whose interaction with mathematics should ideally have enough coverage from the basic level.
The respect thing is not clear to me. Lawyers and Investment bankers are not respected here in the U.S., yet they flourish. Ultimately, if you are passionate about what you do, what people think of you (or not) shouldn't matter so much.
My personal hypothesis is that people in America (parents) give way too much responsibility to the school to educate their children and expect magic to happen from people who are merely paid to take care of your children. Quit having kids or take more responsibility in teaching them. My mother is a teacher too and I recall she spent more time teaching me stuff at home before I even went to kindergarten and that definitely helped keep me ahead of the curve. Sure, her ability to teach helped her a bit but surely it is not that hard as a parent to take more of an active interest in your child's education rather than flopping helplessly and whining about schools and such. /end rant
Re: There Is No Homework In Finland
#50When you adjust American PISA scores for demographics, you see that Americans of all ethnic backgrounds do better than the countries of their ancestors[1]. The mystery of why American schools are so bad disappears when you control for demographics. This might also explain the mystery of why Finland scores so much higher than Sweden and Norway. There are much higher levels of third world immigration in the latter coun…
Why would comparing those two scores make any sense? The US has a good education system if you compare it to the world average. It's no surprise that people in that system would do better than wherever their ancestors are from because the US is virtually guaranteed to outperform a randomly chosen place in the world.
Because that says that Finnish-Americans do better than Finnish people in Finland?