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Dungeons and Developers

dungeonsanddevelopers.com

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Re: Dungeons and Developers

#41

Post by tesseractive »

andrewb wrote: post #38
lifeformed wrote: post #29

What if a company implemented this in their workplace? They would have different classes for general positions in the company, and you could get a skill by passing a rigorous test. Each skill point would get you a raise. You get promotions or change roles based on your class specialization and level. I know, I know, it'd be a disaster. But maybe there could be lower stakes at hand to encourage employees to learn new…

I don't agree that'd be a disaster, I personally like the idea or at least something similar. Essentially it's about basing promotions & pay based off meritocracy. There could be concerns about the Peter Principle [0] but at a high level, it appeals to me to work in an environment where people can "prove" they have the skills, instead of talking the talk or simply being the oldest employee. [0] https://en.wikipedia.o…

The fact that you can point to some credential that asserts that you learned something doesn't speak to your ability to actually use it effectively[1], much less achieve business objectives by using it.

Also, the people who you believe have been promoted by virtue of being the "oldest employee" may actually possess skills that you are unaware of -- perhaps even skills you are unaware are useful and important. Speaking as someone who has been around the block but prefers to work as an individual contributor rather than a manager, I have observed any number of important skills that are prevalent among effective managers that most technical folks start out unaware of. Risk assessment skills -- which are often based in having enough experience with both successful and failed projects -- are a good example. Another is the willingness to take responsibility for what often seem like nonsensical decisions that have to be made due to business or practical constraints. The latter is something that virtually no one likes to do, but often needs to be done in real life.[2] I could go on indefinitely, but I hope a couple of examples will suffice for now.

[1] http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh0blbt3bs1qz8yeno1_400.jp...

[2] I was too slow to pick up on this lesson in real life until I saw the way Tom Hanks told Gary Sinise he was being dropped from the mission in the movie Apollo 13. In the time since, this has been a useful observation about how managers can be more effective when they don't try to do whatever will make you like them the most (which is typically a negative trait in a manager).

Re: Dungeons and Developers

#42

Post by dsirijus »

andrewb wrote: post #38
lifeformed wrote: post #29

What if a company implemented this in their workplace? They would have different classes for general positions in the company, and you could get a skill by passing a rigorous test. Each skill point would get you a raise. You get promotions or change roles based on your class specialization and level. I know, I know, it'd be a disaster. But maybe there could be lower stakes at hand to encourage employees to learn new…

I don't agree that'd be a disaster, I personally like the idea or at least something similar. Essentially it's about basing promotions & pay based off meritocracy. There could be concerns about the Peter Principle [0] but at a high level, it appeals to me to work in an environment where people can "prove" they have the skills, instead of talking the talk or simply being the oldest employee. [0] https://en.wikipedia.o…

Take any D&D-inspired RPG character creation system and tell your spouse or life partner "You do me, I'll do you and then we'll compare!"

Now say again "It wouldn't be a disaster."

Re: Dungeons and Developers

#43

Post by saraid216 »

vyrotek wrote: post #15

If this is the skill tree, is doing a startup a raid?

Nah, the better analogy is forming a guild. The raid is every time there's a fire you have to put out because a key customer is unhappy or you aren't making enough money and need to pivot or your landlord kicks you out or you go for VC funding.

...I can't believe I bothered to write this.

Re: Dungeons and Developers

#44

Post by jib »

lifeformed wrote: post #29

What if a company implemented this in their workplace? They would have different classes for general positions in the company, and you could get a skill by passing a rigorous test. Each skill point would get you a raise. You get promotions or change roles based on your class specialization and level. I know, I know, it'd be a disaster. But maybe there could be lower stakes at hand to encourage employees to learn new…

We did. Not tying it to raises but rather the opposite, as a move to get away from more knowledge=more pay. Raises are based on contribution to the business, the gamification puts some fun stuff around self-improvement without tying it to money. Seems ok so far.

Re: Dungeons and Developers

#45

Post by ewzimm »

This is fun as a "what don't I know" test. I think we all know of some professional software developers who wouldn't pass the advanced database talent. I might be one!

Re: Dungeons and Developers

#46

Post by icambron »

flipstewart wrote: post #40
icambron wrote: post #25

It's very cool, but some complaints: - I shouldn't have to know advanced database management to do AJAX or user authentication. Seems like a dependency bug. - The tree emphasizes jQuery effects to an odd degree (three levels) and it doesn't depend on JS mastery. Seems obscure and out of place. - There's too much specificity in a lot of the descriptions and links. I'd focus less on tools and more on skills. For exampl…

> "The tree emphasizes jQuery effects to an odd degree (three levels) and it doesn't depend on JS mastery." Do you find that use of jQuery requires a mastery of JavaScript? There was a time when I could use jQuery(especially jQuery plugins) but didn't have a clue about how to do very basic things with JavaScript.

I shouldn't have said "mastery"; I just meant that you should have to check the JS box first. I agree you can use jQuery without a strong fundamental knowledge of JS. So fair point.

The description for the first level of JS Frameworks and Libraries is "you can tap into libraries like jQuery". So it's really saying is that jQuery requires JS, but you can use jQuery Effects without knowing jQuery. Also, there's no way you could get to level 3 of jQuery Effects tree (writing your own effects) without at least knowing some JS [1]. So pretty sure there's a bug in there.

But that's probably way too much pedantry about a skill tree that's just for fun. Onto the actually interesting question of how well you can know jQuery without knowing JS. I think it works like this: if you know how to use jQuery, ipso facto you can use JS at least as well. If you're just doing some pattern-matched jQuery stuff, that's cool, but it's also pattern-matched JS stuff, because, well, that's what you're writing in. The more advanced you are at JS, the more advanced you're capable of being in jQuery. There's no way you're going to be able to, say, write your own plugins are build complicated stuff without knowing the language you're writing it in. [2]

It's also probably worth noting that once you know JS really well, learning your way around jQuery is almost trivial. So I posit that trying to learn jQuery without learning JS is a Bad Idea.

[1] I guess that's a general issue with skill trees. B requires A as a prerequisite, but the tree doesn't capture that B level 2 requires A level 2.

[2] I confess this not an argument from experience and that I could be wrong; I'd love to hear stories to the contrary. I had the misfortune of learning JS in the bad old days before jQuery and friends. But I believe it both because it makes a priori sense and also because of the large number of SO jQuery questions where the OP's issue is really that they don't know JS.

Re: Dungeons and Developers

#47

Post by lmartel »

This is fun! Great work.

One small suggestion: consider using replaceState instead of pushState, pressing the back button just removes one skill point when it should probably leave the site (or at least remove all skill points).

Re: Dungeons and Developers

#48

Post by xerophtye »

karpathy wrote: post #30

Content aside, I love the idea of visualizing various skills and their relationships in this World of Warcraft - like style! Nicely done. Khan Academy could be taking notes and inspiration to replace their current Knowledge Map: https://www.khanacademy.org/exercisedashboard Perhaps this would be a little over the top with gamification, but it could be cute to have a character sheet for every student with their level,…

>t's fun to look at Online Education as being essentially an MMORPG.

Hell yeah!

>have a character sheet for every student with their level, experience points, skills and talent specs listed out in tabs

Isn't that one of the goals of Khan Academy? Because I remember them saying that they were against grades and that every student deserved a specialized reprot of their skills abilities projects etc

Re: Dungeons and Developers

#49

Post by lotsofcows »

natural219 wrote: post #20

Aww. I guess not knowing stored procedures prevents me from obtaining Web Development mastery. Fair enough, I suppose.

That one got me to. I'm capable of writing a stored procedure - it's hardly challenging if you program and know RDBMS, I just dislike spreading business logic into my data layer.
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