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Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#41

Post by anologwintermut »

sjbach wrote: post #4

A salient bit: [Eric] Grosse echoed comments from other Google officials, saying that the company resists government surveillance and has never weakened its encryption systems to make snooping easier — as some companies reportedly have, according to the Snowden documents detailed by the Times and the Guardian on Thursday. “This is a just a point of personal honor,” Grosse said. “It will not happen here.” Some folks a…

The revelations that NSA is running a HUMINT program should make it very clear that you can't trust everyone at Google or any other major provider. Those risks are mitigable, but it's expensive and I doubt most places take sufficient steps to prevent it.

Even without that, trusting companies because their employees are honest is hard.

There are some people at the NSA who really really care about privacy and not spying on US Citizens and believed we didn't do so. In fact, most of the ones I've met. However, with sufficient compartmentalization, they don't know what they or others are truly doing. Same can be true for any company.

Are you working on Google's data liberation system to not trap users in your system or are you working on NSA's data exfiltration system for Google's data. I's not always clear.

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#42

Post by adrianlmm »

cloudwalking wrote: post #21
adrianlmm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google really wants to help then it should stop tracking their users, stop spying on me and stop trying to force me to sing up to G+, they cannot give data to the NSA if they stop getting it as simple as that, but, all the NSA has to do is buy the information from Google, after all, they sell it.

If you don't want to be tracked and you don't want to use Google+, stop using Google products. Google does not sell data to anybody. They sell advertising slots.

Is not as easy to scape, they keep tracking you with cookies, with Google analitics and with whatever they can use it, they have all figured out.

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#43

Post by fallingup »

cloudwalking wrote: post #21
adrianlmm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google really wants to help then it should stop tracking their users, stop spying on me and stop trying to force me to sing up to G+, they cannot give data to the NSA if they stop getting it as simple as that, but, all the NSA has to do is buy the information from Google, after all, they sell it.

If you don't want to be tracked and you don't want to use Google+, stop using Google products. Google does not sell data to anybody. They sell advertising slots.

You're still tracked if you don't use Google products.

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#44

Post by obituary_latte »

magicalist wrote: post #34
001sky wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, Google Argues for Right to Continue Scanning Gmail "This company reads, on a daily basis, every email that's submitted, and when I say read, I mean looking at every word to determine meaning," said Texas attorney Sean Rommel, who is co-counsel suing Google. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/google-argues-con... http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24021944/google-argue...

Why are you posting this shit on HN? Everyone here knows how contextual advertising in gmail works, and excepting those too young to have been aware back then, have known about it since 2004. If you have a point, make it, but scare quotes specifically made to induce an emotional reaction from those without technical knowledge really have no place here.

If nothing else, it reminds people that it's going on. Which is a good thing. Myself, with adblockXYZ installed, often forget or don't notice. And when these do come up, I'm grateful because it reminds me to stop being a lazy bastard and set up an email server (as I've done many times for others) for myself. I appreciate that.

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#45

Post by RobAtticus »

001sky wrote: post #19
newman314 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or so they say. I'm not convinced that this is not Google's version of "trust us". Keep in mind there is no PR loss for Google to adopt a pro-encryption stance now. If they are really serious about this, they would a) stop trawling emails and b) help develop tech for seamlessly encrypting both in-flight and at-rest email.

Meanwhile, Google Argues for Right to Continue Scanning Gmail "This company reads, on a daily basis, every email that's submitted, and when I say read, I mean looking at every word to determine meaning," said Texas attorney Sean Rommel, who is co-counsel suing Google. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/google-argues-con... http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24021944/google-argue...

This quote makes it sound like Google employees (i.e., humans) are reading your email. It's an algorithm that is processing your email, as most (all?) of us are aware. It's not like there's some employee sitting there reading your stuff and then determining you're in the market for a new camera.

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#46

Post by 001sky »

magicalist wrote: post #34
001sky wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, Google Argues for Right to Continue Scanning Gmail "This company reads, on a daily basis, every email that's submitted, and when I say read, I mean looking at every word to determine meaning," said Texas attorney Sean Rommel, who is co-counsel suing Google. http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/google-argues-con... http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_24021944/google-argue...

Why are you posting this shit on HN? Everyone here knows how contextual advertising in gmail works, and excepting those too young to have been aware back then, have known about it since 2004. If you have a point, make it, but scare quotes specifically made to induce an emotional reaction from those without technical knowledge really have no place here.

Here's your footnote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#47

Post by crazygringo »

drcode wrote: post #30
sjbach wrote: post #4

A salient bit: [Eric] Grosse echoed comments from other Google officials, saying that the company resists government surveillance and has never weakened its encryption systems to make snooping easier — as some companies reportedly have, according to the Snowden documents detailed by the Times and the Guardian on Thursday. “This is a just a point of personal honor,” Grosse said. “It will not happen here.” Some folks a…

Since Google is able (and willing, when asked by the government) to decrypt everybody's email at will, and continues to build software that maintains their absolute power to do this, I really don't give a f@#k whether they promise to use 256 bit encryption, 512 bit encryption or 23439287239 bit encryption.

There's still a gigantic difference between the government being able to "vacuum up" everything (weak/no encryption) from everyone, versus the government having to ask for communications from specific users.

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#48

Post by ariwilson »

Just to clarify the discussion here, since the NSA is involved in snooping on internet users along many different dimensions, I think what is being discussed here is encrypting internal Google data being transmitted from datacenter to datacenter via private fiber optic cables. Recent revelations seem to indicate the NSA has set up fiber taps on various company's networks. This encryption would frustrate those tapping efforts.

Legal requests to Google for user data are not affected by this change. Neither is private data at rest, which is still presumably encrypted. Neither are other extralegal avenues the NSA has to infiltrate Google (employee co-operation or intimidation, exploiting zero days to get into corporate networks, hijacking security protocol construction, etc).

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#49

Post by adrianlmm »

anxiousest wrote: post #29
adrianlmm wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google really wants to help then it should stop tracking their users, stop spying on me and stop trying to force me to sing up to G+, they cannot give data to the NSA if they stop getting it as simple as that, but, all the NSA has to do is buy the information from Google, after all, they sell it.

Their business - like that of most tech companies - is built on data (so is every business to some degree) they can't forgo data, that is stupid. If the NSA is your main concern then it's government policy you want to be changed, not the engineering decisions of private companies. Also worth mentioning that unless you're speaking of telecom companies there is no profit motive to cooperating with government but mainly…

Their business is data, buy they have gone beyond that, they just don't want to know what I'd like to buy, they want to know were I live, my phone number, the places I visit, they want to know where I'm every single second of the day, screw that.

Re: Google encrypts data amid backlash against NSA spying

#50

Post by quantumpotato_ »

crazygringo wrote: post #47
drcode wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Google is able (and willing, when asked by the government) to decrypt everybody's email at will, and continues to build software that maintains their absolute power to do this, I really don't give a f@#k whether they promise to use 256 bit encryption, 512 bit encryption or 23439287239 bit encryption.

There's still a gigantic difference between the government being able to "vacuum up" everything (weak/no encryption) from everyone, versus the government having to ask for communications from specific users.

You can split up the USA into a few queries and then just filter for a specific email. Semantics.
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