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English has been my pain for 15 years

antirez.com

41–50 of 308 posts

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#41
post #5

English is so horrible because it has no discernable orthography. My favorite example is anti thesis -> antithesis. I mean what the fuck, my mothertongue german is the king of combined nouns but this change of pronounciation on concatenation doesnt happen ever. Or phonetical difference based on grammtic use as in the verb read. Horrible. I think it should be handled like the Finns and Koreans did. Throw all the irreg…

Antithesis sounds close to Anti thesis in English (As opposed to American English)

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#42
post #12
post #7

This is a great post. Here's a BBC Radio Four programme where Stephen Fry talks about spelling reform, and it includes a little bit about pronunciation. The brokenness of English is a problem we know about! ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039c5cs ) > The fact that people from different English speaking countries have issues communicating is already a big hint about how odd is English phonetically. It doesn't have…

>> the cost of everything but the value of nothing that tony benn speech is amazing :p

Oscar Wilde is the original author of that quote. It was the answer to a question posed to him ("What's a cynic?").

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#43
I was born in America, raised learning English, and to this day, my written skills are nowhere near perfect. Nor are my verbal skills. I am constantly writing and rewriting sentences because the intangibles of communications, such as tone, style, prose, format, are extremely important and often overlooked. Not to mention, my grammar after 29 years is still far from perfect.

I've attempted and now partially understand, read, write, and speak Spanish, Swedish, German. Having experienced all of the intricacies of other languages, I don't envy those who are far behind me trying to make it in an English.

That being said, what's the lesson learned, or probably more apt - what's the solution? This is why firms like YC exist, is to provide support to founders that lack all of the acumen (and trust me, there's a lot) that is required for 21st century business leaders. There's often a meta discussion here on HN about the "technical co-founder vs business co-founder". This is one area where having a business co-founder with great communication skills is a great reason to partner up with that person. Unfortunately those who do lack communication skills often find it difficult to understand those who do have good communication skills.

I wish I could help somehow...

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#44
post #6

This sentence is so true "My brain is full of associations between written words and funny sounds that really don't exist in the actual language."

Heh, I grew up speaking English and still had that problem just because my reading vocabulary surpassed the vocabulary in usage in the country where I was.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#45
post #25
post #14

Getting used to and understanding different accents is actually fairly easy, if you watch US and UK tv series regularly. In any case this post shows perfectly how important it is to learn languages early on. In Germany you start learning English in 3rd grade and even before school there are kindergartens in which multiple languages are spoken. If you go to a Gymnasium and want to graduate with the abitur you need to…

> Getting used to and understanding different accents is actually fairly easy, if you watch US and UK tv series regularly. In TV series UK people tend to talk BBC-alike English, in my experience this is not what is always talked in the streets in UK... so I'll get better understanding tv series but maybe my understanding of street language may not improve a lot. Btw TV series definitely help a lot in general, and I u…

In one case a documentary serious about Scottish fishermen had to be subtitled because the accents/dialect were incomprehensible to general viewers in the UK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trawlermen_%28TV_series%29

What I find amusing is that as someone from the area in question it appears that most of the people being filmed are trying hard to talk "properly" - their real accents would be much thicker.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#46
post #7

This is a great post. Here's a BBC Radio Four programme where Stephen Fry talks about spelling reform, and it includes a little bit about pronunciation. The brokenness of English is a problem we know about! ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039c5cs ) > The fact that people from different English speaking countries have issues communicating is already a big hint about how odd is English phonetically. It doesn't have…

Translating the documentation from English is akin to providing obese people with scooters inside chain stores: instead of facing the problem head-on you're just avoiding it and learning to live with it.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#47
post #33
post #7

This is a great post. Here's a BBC Radio Four programme where Stephen Fry talks about spelling reform, and it includes a little bit about pronunciation. The brokenness of English is a problem we know about! ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b039c5cs ) > The fact that people from different English speaking countries have issues communicating is already a big hint about how odd is English phonetically. It doesn't have…

Thanks for the interesting links, it is interesting that there is a debate about it. About software documentation translation, maybe I'm biased since the Italian speaking population is so small that it's much simpler for italians to learn basic English skills, but actually Spanish or Chinese have so many speakers that the efforts could pay back a lot more. As for the "World Service", I would already be happy enough w…

How would the card game work? It sounds like an interesting idea.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#48
post #28

I don't understand why people are making such a big fuss about the PG article. He gave only one example of so many red hearing. Obviously being a foreigner with a strong accent doesn't help you when 90% of your time is spent communicating. duh. What makes me sad is that by being honest and wanting to help founders, PG just got a new shit load of problems from people over-reacting. Do you really think he'll give great…

The problem of PG (and yours) it's the lack on empathy, simply as that. Like "antirez" says, English is not a hobby: English is pushed down the throat of a growing share of people around the world today. And they need English to live a normal life, not for fancy careers.

Imagine yourself to be forced to speak Japanese to gain your money, because you have no alternatives. How you would feel if all your efforts will be worthless just because you're born in the wrong side of the world, and you sound funny.

The problem is that many English speaker have no idea how is like to learn another language, hence they lack of empathy.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#49

English is a Germanic language and I would argue that it is particularly difficult for Native speakers of Romanic languages to pick it up. I'm German and my experience has always been that English is a very simple language and yet versatile enough to allow for very nuanced expression.

How do you cope with the pronunciation though? It is my 5th year living in Germany, and as an italian I find the pronunciation much more straightforward in German than in English.

Re: English has been my pain for 15 years

#50
post #5

English is so horrible because it has no discernable orthography. My favorite example is anti thesis -> antithesis. I mean what the fuck, my mothertongue german is the king of combined nouns but this change of pronounciation on concatenation doesnt happen ever. Or phonetical difference based on grammtic use as in the verb read. Horrible. I think it should be handled like the Finns and Koreans did. Throw all the irreg…

2 remarks: * The Turkish written language has had a similar transformation. There are no dictation exercises beyond the age of 12 because it's too easy. * Dutch is a similar 'power language' you can combine any 2 nouns in any order to create new words. For a native speaker, the meaning then is obvious.

> There are no dictation exercises beyond the age of 12 because it's too easy.

Then I am 31 years old and move from Finland to London and need to spell (dictate letter by letter) my name in a bank – something I have never done in my life. I do it really slowly, and the bank clerk probably thinks I am borderline retarded, can't even spell his own name, something even kids learn to do. :-D

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