Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bad example. There is nothing intrinsically different between a black QB and a white one, all other things being equal. All other things being equal, there is a lot of difference between what an eloquent speaker can achieve and what a heavily accented speaker can achieve in the role of CEO. This has nothing to do with preconceived bias. This has to do with Paul Graham's examination, over the course of funding over 50…
You present "eloquent" and "heavily accented" as if they were diametrically opposite. In fact, they are on different axes.
Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
41–50 of 74 posts
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you just rationalized discrimination. Nice work.
I think you just disregarded my entire argument using a cultural taboo. Nice work. See? I can play at that game too. The problem is, doing that doesn't get anywhere, because I'm still convinced of my point, and you're still convinced of yours, and there's no dialectic to compromise our ideas.
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#43Slightly offtopic: The whole idea of the immigration restrictions is ridiculous. There is not a single justification for it. Unless of course you believe that somehow your people deserve better than everyone else. When people bring up the fact that it drives down wages and residents lose as a result - why don't they also mention that residents win by getting a cheaper product or a service? When people bring up the we…
The US was built by the descendants of Europeans who nearly wiped out the existing native population. How did immigration work out for the Native Americans and their descendants?
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#44Slightly offtopic: The whole idea of the immigration restrictions is ridiculous. There is not a single justification for it. Unless of course you believe that somehow your people deserve better than everyone else. When people bring up the fact that it drives down wages and residents lose as a result - why don't they also mention that residents win by getting a cheaper product or a service? When people bring up the we…
sure...how about you throw a party at your home and a thousand people show up and want in? Unrestricted anything leads to chaos and trouble.
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you just rationalized discrimination. Nice work.
I think you just disregarded my entire argument using a cultural taboo. Nice work. See? I can play at that game too. The problem is, doing that doesn't get anywhere, because I'm still convinced of my point, and you're still convinced of yours, and there's no dialectic to compromise our ideas.
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#46I guess this might be a good place to ask -- are there any good places people can recommend for accent training? I can write English pretty decently (in fact, probably better than most of the American people I have seen - but I guess Dunning-Kruger might be involved.) But I still retain the accent of my native country, which somewhat hampers me in the US (specially if PG thinks people like that are clueless.) So, can…
I like this course (I bought the pdf+mp3 version):
http://tarlespeech.com/accent-services/accent-products/stand...
http://tarlespeech.com/accent-services/accent-products/stand...
She also has some very helpful free videos:
http://tarlespeech.com/accent-services/minute-of-speech/
It's very important to record and listen to yourself. It'll become clear very quickly what you need to improve.
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#47I did have a foreign accent but thankfully not so thick to make it non-understandable. I received a similar feedback from PG before the demo day and I worked on it.
As an entrepreneur, you can do two things - either take it as an insult and leave it or as constructive feedback and work on it. In fact, I setup an office hour with Garry to just work on this.
For eg: in India, the word programmer is pronounced as prograamar (the stress is at the end) vs pro-grammar in US. And similarly, path is pronounced as "paath" as opposed to "p-a-th" (stress on 'a') here. These are definitely minor things that you have to tune (and I'm sure PG was referring to a much more thicker accent people had) which will make it easy for people to follow what you are saying.
If you didn't work on this, the investor would miss what you had said and then after a couple of seconds would realize.. "oh. you said programmer, okay", the train of thought is lost, you continue with the slides and it repeats again. And that's not okay.
After you have identified a product-market fit in your startup, I have realized everything is about convincing, every damn thing. -- convincing the guy to join your company -- convincing the customer to buy your product -- convincing a new investor to make a bet on your company -- negotiating/convincing for compensation and pay package -- convincing someone to continue to stay in your company and so on..
It's almost like I can prefix a huge percentage of my work with the word "convincing" and it would all make sense. When that's the case, it's better to ensure at least your statements are eloquent and of high clarity that doesn't require repetition (unless of course the person wasn't listening). You are just going to improve the odds and that's what a startup is all about - do things that increase the odds of success.
It's a constructive feedback that I believe entrepreneurs should work on for their own good. It's not equivalent to sounding like an american but if you have a foreign accent (which you will if you aren't born here), please work on it to ensure what you say comes off clearly. That's it.
And YC clearly has no bias based on accent. I know tons of immigrant founders who are part of YC. In fact, 3 of my classmates (all from India) are a part of YC.
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#48Slightly offtopic: The whole idea of the immigration restrictions is ridiculous. There is not a single justification for it. Unless of course you believe that somehow your people deserve better than everyone else. When people bring up the fact that it drives down wages and residents lose as a result - why don't they also mention that residents win by getting a cheaper product or a service? When people bring up the we…
> The US was built on the hard work of immigrants. The US was built by the descendants of Europeans who nearly wiped out the existing native population. How did immigration work out for the Native Americans and their descendants?
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#49Immigration also increases the size of the labor pool, driving down wages.
It's empirically false that high rates of immigration lead to lower real wages. International comparisons show that it is actually the other way around. The "lump of labor fallacy" is still very persuasive to people who have never studied economics, but people who have traveled around the world notice examples like Hong Kong (high immigration, high wages for region) and reflect that new people in a place leads to mor…
Re: Bring Me Your Accents. Immigration Fuels Innovation
#50There is nothing in the article that suggests that accents lead to innovation. I'm not fully aware of the PG controversy but maybe he's privileged to some data that we aren't. Stating stats shouldn't be rebutted with fluff pieces.
That's besides the point. The point is that this is a fluff piece upvoted by people with white guilt in order to alleviate that guilt. :D