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Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

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Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#41
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, if I'm searching for something non-obvious, it does get a bit tedious. It's not like Google where I still find it after the 3 or 4th page; the results just get further and further from what I expect. DDG's biggest problem so far is "grokking context" as you put it.

The contrast was/is starker: DDG would return pages of irrelevant crap, and Google/StartPage would have exactly what I wanted in the first 1-3 results, with usually 8 of the top ten being relevant. Google is simply leagues ahead of the competition right now in both index quality and query recognition.

I hear this a lot, but no one ever gives me a search example that bears it out. I !g sometimes after I'm just not seeing what I want on DDG, and as often as not, the Google results are even worse.

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#42
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S. Your (Google, again) elimination of the + operator in your search queries was, again anecdotally, another factor in the declining performance of your searches for me. +1 to that. At the least Google should have added a ++ operator to replace the co-opted +.

"Quote" the search term. That's the replacement for +.

Yes, but it's a PITA.

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#43
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S. Your (Google, again) elimination of the + operator in your search queries was, again anecdotally, another factor in the declining performance of your searches for me. +1 to that. At the least Google should have added a ++ operator to replace the co-opted +.

"Quote" the search term. That's the replacement for +.

Yep. That adds more keystrokes to optimize a query that didn't give the best results the first time.

It'd be nice if there were an option to revert the behavior.

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#44

I "Google" less and less for search results, as they become increasingly crap. They are mostly best for "big name" items; also, the prominence of StackOverflow means that some computer technology queries still work pretty well. These days, I'm fortunate when I know specifically enough what I want that I can jump straight into Wikipedia and hopefully find an adequate page. Whatever you are and aren't doing about it, G…

I actually find Google's higher weighting of StackOverflow results annoying. I've recently been experimenting with a new iOS project, and whenever I search for something Objective-C or iOS SDK related, the first few results are SO questions. In some cases this is useful, but for many queries you really just want the canonical explanation from Apple's docs, not a bunch of people discussing an issue that happens to include those keywords.

SO is more useful when you have a problem that you're trying to debug, and official docs are more useful when you're trying to understand new concepts. Unfortunately Google doesn't allow any way to differentiate between these modes.

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#45

I "Google" less and less for search results, as they become increasingly crap. They are mostly best for "big name" items; also, the prominence of StackOverflow means that some computer technology queries still work pretty well. These days, I'm fortunate when I know specifically enough what I want that I can jump straight into Wikipedia and hopefully find an adequate page. Whatever you are and aren't doing about it, G…

I felt a bit like you until I added a "goodgle" search engine in my chrome, basically forcing Verbatim at each Google search (appending &tbs=li:1), and forcing English to be the base language, instead of whatever country I am finding myself in at the moment. Then, I tweaked the results by manually ignoring a couple domains, and now, Google is sort of usable again for my personal taste.

Unlike you though, spam (at least recently) has not been a very strong issue of mine. If I had to name one, I'd say that "personalization" of the results was the worst offender to the quality my search results, and the positive thing is that we can turn that one off.

As crazy as it sounds, I wish another good search engine comes, as Google feels more and more like the "least bad" option, rather than the "good" one to me, and I'm just talking about search results, voluntarily excluding privacy & other topics from the debate.

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#46
post #44

I "Google" less and less for search results, as they become increasingly crap. They are mostly best for "big name" items; also, the prominence of StackOverflow means that some computer technology queries still work pretty well. These days, I'm fortunate when I know specifically enough what I want that I can jump straight into Wikipedia and hopefully find an adequate page. Whatever you are and aren't doing about it, G…

I actually find Google's higher weighting of StackOverflow results annoying. I've recently been experimenting with a new iOS project, and whenever I search for something Objective-C or iOS SDK related, the first few results are SO questions. In some cases this is useful, but for many queries you really just want the canonical explanation from Apple's docs, not a bunch of people discussing an issue that happens to inc…

Well that's a very simple problem to fix, the "-" operator still works, so you can exclude stackoverflow easily, or use the "site:" operator to force the result to come from apple.

You can even setup those parameters as custom search engines in Chrome so you don't have to repeat yourself every time.

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#47
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S. Your (Google, again) elimination of the + operator in your search queries was, again anecdotally, another factor in the declining performance of your searches for me. +1 to that. At the least Google should have added a ++ operator to replace the co-opted +.

"Quote" the search term. That's the replacement for +.

[deleted]

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#48
I believe it. I love the Yahoo homepage. And when I'm with a group and someone mentioned something obscure... just about everyone mutters - "oh yeah, I saw that on Yahoo."

Keep in mind, these are not a geeky bunch, I'm the only redditor among them. We're talking about people who use their phones for everything and the computer to browse the web or answer an email.

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#49
post #34
post #19

I've been experimenting with DuckDuckGo and I must say, I'm finding what I'm looking for pretty quickly (minus junk results) in the first few results. Their WolframAlpha results are actually pretty good too. I hope they can move into image searching that isn't dependent on Google or Bing though. I'm still curious as to what criteria they used to differentiate Yahoo traffic under "Yahoo! Sites" though. Did they also i…

I tried DuckDuckGo and was instantly turned off their website due to the terrible results they display. Not to mention that site looks like it was made by a programmer, not a designer i.e. unreadable.

It's a bit of an acquired taste in the UI department, but I got used to it in about a couple of days. As for results, it may be that I'm searching for common/obvious things, but most of what I'm looking for are in at least the first 1-4 result or so.

Re: Yahoo tops Google in US traffic

#50

I "Google" less and less for search results, as they become increasingly crap. They are mostly best for "big name" items; also, the prominence of StackOverflow means that some computer technology queries still work pretty well. These days, I'm fortunate when I know specifically enough what I want that I can jump straight into Wikipedia and hopefully find an adequate page. Whatever you are and aren't doing about it, G…

Very true, glad I'm not the only one to have noticed this. And I've got a suggestion for a search engine so intelligent - well relatively - it took google back to school and enrolled it in kindergarten. I find myself using it whenever Google gets stumped; it consistently gives better results in the sense that I feel it has a better understanding of my query. Take this example that prompted my above semi-hyperbole. Background:

Four days ago, while walking around outside I saw an insect. Normally this is nothing to write home about except that I had originally mistaken this insect for an assorted clump of debris. So you can imagine my surprise when not only did it start moving, it did so with gusto, scaling walls and what not. Strangest thing I've ever seen. So I thought I'd check Google to find out what manner of sorcery this was. I expected nothing of course - I had no clue where to start. Search term: "insect with a bunch of junk attached to it".

Google Result: http://i.imgur.com/FGIInog.png?1 vs. Other Search Engine Result: http://i.imgur.com/t8ei8dX.png?1

What I sought was the debris carrying lacewing larvae. Result 2 is far off but I was so happy to put a name to the entity I did not even register that result.

The first thing you will notice is Google trying way too hard and ending up with idiotic suggestions as a result. It seems to use the words and their synonyms without accounting for context. That is the only way it could possibly give PHP, email and bugzilla reports as possible answers to that query [1]. It's a common recent pattern I've been noticing, unless I can model how I think people will write about what I'm searching for and more importantly it is not something the SEO people have motive to polish so vigorously, the content is accidently removed; I won't get good results. That SEO bit is annoying because I remember when my previous searches in the genre (e.g. game related) used to be far more fruitful. The new behavior of adding synonyms is particularly not worth it since the fails are much more spectacular than it wins.

Final stuff: I also compare bing, duck duck go and blekko results whenever I hit queries I think are complicated, none do much better than google. Sometimes they are worse. This result is the first time Samuru blew everyone out of the water, usually it is modestly better [2] (answer in second half vs not so for others [3]). The reason I still use google is force of habit, it took over chrome and most importantly: its incredible and unmatched indexing ability. But I use samuru enough that it's one of my most visited pages.

I have absolutely no affiliation with them, don't know who it's by and found out about it here on HN. According to Paul Graham, Google can be tackled if they can get 10,000 hackers on their side. Time to put the hypothesis to the test, +1 here.

[1] Here is the same search with quotes: http://imgur.com/qiGDnqr&t8ei8dX#0

[3] I only sometimes check page 2 for the others. This might seem unfair but a key UX concept is to minimize latency. Clicking to page 2 seems minor but the EV for that action is so low I skip it. But scrolling just a bit more since I'm already here is much cheaper. UX should absolutely count as much as tech (UX/process + human + algorithms > all).

[2] My annoyance with such vague anecdotes is why I decided to start taking screenshots. And also because results are not stable. For example, search terms that bing once did well on are now embarrassing.

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