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Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

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Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#41

Post by jacalata »

cousin_it wrote: post #26
wpietri wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

If you want to prove that fewer women than men become programmers because of obstacles, it's not enough to point out the obstacles faced by women, you also need to argue that the obstacles faced by men are less severe. I think you'll have a hard time arguing that, considering how nerdy guys are treated in school by both girls and other guys. Girls who go into programming don't take such a big hit in attractiveness.

They don't? Can you prove that?

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#42

Post by georgiecasey »

wpietri wrote: post #6
georgiecasey wrote: post #3

oh great, it's this thread again

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

jesus that was an angry reply! my comment had nothing to do with the subject matter and everything to do with how frequently it is talked about here and in the 'community', with the same points and round-about discussion

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#43

Post by zanny »

patmcc wrote: post #2

Good post in whole, but part of #3 really caught my eye: >>When I go to Kindergarten Moms Night and someone asks what I do, "computer programming" usually ends the conversation I don't this is specific to women - I run into exactly the same thing talking about my tech job with friends, family, strangers, etc. There's also always an underlying question that gets avoided in these types of articles - what's the "correct…

> what's the "correct" percentage

Whatever numer of people that, barring societal interference, in an isolated vacuum with neutral exposure to all professions, choose the profession based only on personality and aptitude.

Maybe some market pressure towards in-demand professions, but that should be mostly extrinsic to someone in their developmental years until after they are exposed to most possible career paths.

Like the OP mentions, it isn't something that the software industry alone can solve, and IMO, all the affirmative action only does the inverse draw that doesn't actually attract those with a passion, but those for the easy access or money. It require society collectively to get over itself and stop thinking you can't do STEM without a Y chromosome, and it needs to stop demonizing the intellectually curious girls. But that is hard, because the parents of those girls were raised the same way.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#44

Post by jacalata »

Sandman wrote: post #8
patmcc wrote: post #2

Good post in whole, but part of #3 really caught my eye: >>When I go to Kindergarten Moms Night and someone asks what I do, "computer programming" usually ends the conversation I don't this is specific to women - I run into exactly the same thing talking about my tech job with friends, family, strangers, etc. There's also always an underlying question that gets avoided in these types of articles - what's the "correct…

Agreed. I always wondered whether one of the main reasons why there are less female than male programmers is that, well, most women simply prefer other professions.

If it is normal for women not to want to do programming then the corollary is that women who do enjoy programming are 'abnormal' and 'not like most women', perhaps you could call it 'unfeminine'. Given that attitude, readily demonstrated by half of HN here, how could girls possibly sense an external pressure not to be programmers?

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#45

Post by skwirl »

It's also difficult to make progress when you have certain self-aggrandizing individuals who are out there falsely claiming that software development is a den of misogyny. If you were a young woman considering going into software development and you read Jezebel earlier this year, you might be led to believe that female developers are subject to a constant barrage of sexual dick jokes and are fired if they complain about it.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#46

Post by jacalata »

yelnatz wrote: post #34
erikpukinskis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People do what they want, less women want to program Fewer women want to program because they're taught from a very young age that they can't. As a result, we're losing out on a bunch of great programmers, which I think is a loss. I also think it's sad that girls are made to feel like these things are off-limits to them. I think the world would be a better place if every kid thought they could do whatever job they…

Whose teaching them they cant?

Everyone on this page who says something like 'I'm pretty sure that women don't normally like programming'.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#47

Post by smtddr »

joyeuse6701 wrote: post #10

Make it appealing to girls. Before it was independent career woman. The general appeal today is successful female entrepreneur. Next may be passive income hacker? Just need one show/movie to glamorize a self made woman via engineering and bam, you'll get more interest, though it may be superficial. Who knows maybe you will never get the numbers you want because it is simply less appealing to women, much like nursing…

Well, just don't make this mistake... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g032MPrSjFA

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#48

Post by greyfade »

Sandman wrote: post #8
patmcc wrote: post #2

Good post in whole, but part of #3 really caught my eye: >>When I go to Kindergarten Moms Night and someone asks what I do, "computer programming" usually ends the conversation I don't this is specific to women - I run into exactly the same thing talking about my tech job with friends, family, strangers, etc. There's also always an underlying question that gets avoided in these types of articles - what's the "correct…

Agreed. I always wondered whether one of the main reasons why there are less female than male programmers is that, well, most women simply prefer other professions.

Even if that's the case, I can't help but wonder what contributions they could have made to the state of the art if they were interested to begin with.

From my (poor) understanding of neurophysiology, it seems to me that women should actually generally be better than men at jobs like software development and engineering. So the fact that women are generally less interested in these things is alarming to me.

If that's so, then we have a major social stigma around technical interests that is preventing all but white and Asian men from gaining even a basic interest in these fields. And this is a travesty of the highest order.

Re: Why Aren't There More Women Programmers?

#50

Post by [deleted] »

georgiecasey wrote: post #42
wpietri wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a looking for a name for that feeling, it's "entitled". As in, "As a guy, I am entitled not to be bothered by the problems women have getting into programming." To which I say: so what? Does it all have to be about you? Me, I have a cousin. She's 7. At the family reunion, she saw me using a screwdriver to take something apart. She immediately elbowed her way into the seat next to me, and politely insisted…

jesus that was an angry reply! my comment had nothing to do with the subject matter and everything to do with how frequently it is talked about here and in the 'community', with the same points and round-about discussion

[deleted]
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