Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#41

Post by ttflee » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 1:42 PM UTC

asynchronous13 wrote: post #35

msoad wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although Lightning Cable is not the first to be bidirectional I am mad at Apple for not making Lightning an open standard.

> I am mad at Apple for not making Lightning an open standard. Lightning is just Apple's marketing term for Intel's Thunderbolt interface. The standard is available from Intel, and if it were not it would be more appropriate to direct your anger at Intel.

You must have mistaken Light Peak for Lightening or Thunderbolt for Lightening. Light Peak = Thunderbolt, which competes with USB 3. Lightening is completely different.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#42

Post by mikeash » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 1:42 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #34

claudius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just let the free market decide things like this, it is extremely efficient at that. Yes, it absolutely did not take an EU intervention to standardise mobile phone chargers on Micro USB, instead, the manufacturers recognised that it is a good thing to get rid off proprietary chargers as consumers all only bought the phones with the standardised chargers. Or are you saying that needing a new, different, charger for…

But your point is? Apple is able to satisfy this requirement easily with a cruddy adapter (the cable actually). Anyways, if apple's solution is simply better than the android micro USB solution, who wins?

Apple wins, while the rest of us get stuck carrying around a wide variety of cables for no good reason.

The argument that the free market will find a solution works when competition is allowed. It doesn't work when every company who isn't Apple is legally prohibited from adopting Apple's connector.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#43

Post by protomyth » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 1:45 PM UTC

asynchronous13 wrote: post #35

msoad wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although Lightning Cable is not the first to be bidirectional I am mad at Apple for not making Lightning an open standard.

> I am mad at Apple for not making Lightning an open standard. Lightning is just Apple's marketing term for Intel's Thunderbolt interface. The standard is available from Intel, and if it were not it would be more appropriate to direct your anger at Intel.

No, Lightning is a separate port used on iPod / iOS devices which is slower than the Thunderbolt interface.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#44

Post by officemonkey » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 1:48 PM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #33

unwind wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB 3.0's highest speed (termed "SuperSpeed" to easily separate it from the previous, equally clearly labelled, speed grades "LowSpeed", "FullSpeed" and "HighSpeed") requires more pins than USB 2.0 speeds, so the connectors are different. Here's a link, picture of USB 3.0 micro plug on the right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Cable_plugs_.28USB_3.0.29 .

If USB 4.0 doesn't come labeled as "LudicrousSpeed" I will be severely disappointed. EDIT: For those who don't get the reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0

InsaneSpeed

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#45

Post by vacri » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 1:48 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

simias wrote: post #2

This is a great answer, but IIRC there's an other reason to prefer micro over mini: the moving parts in the micro-USB connection are in the male plug, not the female one like the mini. Since those parts tend to break easily, it's cheaper to replace the cable rather than the smartphone/device having the female port. That being said I'm still a bit mad at Apple for ditching their old large port, only to replace it with…

Apple's port, which doesn't have an up/down direction, is much easier to plug in than the micro USB port, which does. It is an innovation, like it or not, that USB doesn't have.

Speaking of up/down and Apple, I saw today that Apple's ethernet ports are upside-down. They're supposed to have the contacts at the top, to avoid collection of dust when the port is not in use.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#46

Post by simias » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 1:54 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #40

simias wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a good innovation indeed. That being said, I'd rather deal with the minor annoyance of having to figure out which way to plug my USB cable than having to carry two sets of cables/adapters to accommodate all my devices.

On proper USB cables, it's always logo-side up, isn't it?

It should be, unfortunately it's not always immediately obvious with all devices which side of the port is supposed to be "up".

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#47

Post by speeder » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 2:01 PM UTC

So I am not nuts!

I always wondered if something was wrong with my charging cables and USB phone cables always failing to work after only some months...

So indeed, the mini and micro both have issues (thankfully the micro is "less worse" or I would be buying cables like there is no tomorrow)

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#48

Post by snarfy » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 2:25 PM UTC

I still wish they would have standardized on 2.5mm jacks for usb. You can plug it in any direction, and you can pull a cable out of a tangle of wires without snagging due to the round shape. It is a superior connector.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#49

Post by Pxtl » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 2:30 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

simias wrote: post #2

This is a great answer, but IIRC there's an other reason to prefer micro over mini: the moving parts in the micro-USB connection are in the male plug, not the female one like the mini. Since those parts tend to break easily, it's cheaper to replace the cable rather than the smartphone/device having the female port. That being said I'm still a bit mad at Apple for ditching their old large port, only to replace it with…

Apple's port, which doesn't have an up/down direction, is much easier to plug in than the micro USB port, which does. It is an innovation, like it or not, that USB doesn't have.

To me, the biggest failing of micro-USB isn't the up/down thing, but its inability to back-power the same port that is being used as a host. That is, if I have a device with one port, I can't plug that device into a hub where it hosts devices and gets recharged at the same time. This is becoming an obvious flaw in the day of tablets-as-laptops - you can't make a "docking station" using a single USB port. Meanwhile, the iPod has been sporting docking stations that provide both audio/video out and charging since before the smartphone war.

Re: Why was Mini USB deprecated in favor of Micro USB?

#50

Post by laumars » Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 2:47 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #49

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's port, which doesn't have an up/down direction, is much easier to plug in than the micro USB port, which does. It is an innovation, like it or not, that USB doesn't have.

To me, the biggest failing of micro-USB isn't the up/down thing, but its inability to back-power the same port that is being used as a host. That is, if I have a device with one port, I can't plug that device into a hub where it hosts devices and gets recharged at the same time. This is becoming an obvious flaw in the day of tablets-as-laptops - you can't make a "docking station" using a single USB port. Meanwhile, t…

Sure you can. USB has a dedicated pin for sending power down and it's been an integral part of the design since the start (USB 1.0). How do you think USB pen drives (et al) work when they have chips which need powering? Or USB "soundcards", wireless dongles, USB keyboards and mice? They all need powering and they all need powering while in operation.

You might not be able to send higher charges while using data - I've not followed the spec that closely - but you can supply at least enough charge to keep the phone running even if you cannot recharge it.

The reason you don't get docking stations for other phones is because every sodding phone puts their USB socket in a different place (and often it changes from model to model from the same manufacturer). This means whatever dock you build will automatically be fugly compared to iPhone/iPod docks because you'll need a USB cable. Which is why any such dock will either have a 3.5mm audio jack (TRS) and thus support any portable device, or use bluetooth for a wireless solution.