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The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

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Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#41

Post by rayiner »

Here's my proble. I have no problem paying taxes and investing in my community. But I'd never want to invest in a city as absurd as San Francisco.

It is interesting to observe how people in the finance industry in New York view taxation. They'll complain about it, but by and large they're pretty supportive of the whole system. Which is important, because they're responsible for some large fraction of the tax base, as well as a lot of corporate investment in the community. I think Wall Street is happy to invest in New York because the city isn't totally dysfunctional. The people who pay the taxes see benefits from public services, whether its the police or the transit infrastructure. It's a place where people making a million dollars a year will ride the bus or subway to work and so feel invested in the public services they pay for.

In San Francisco, the crazies and the hippies are firmly in charge. And as long as that's the case, why would you want to give them your money?

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#42

Post by simoncion »

pnathan wrote: post #38

My perspective is that the tech community at large - quite some time ago - abdicated integrating into the rest of the world. I invite a careful read of Barlow's bombast[1] from the early '90s and consider how that has played out into today. With the techie desire to remove politics and marketing and the overweening wish to be logical instead of emotional comes the abdication of dealing with the messy, compromising, a…

You say that the beggars were aggressive. Does this mean that they asked everyone for change, and even asked you whenever they saw you, or does it mean that they would touch you and/or get in your face and speak violently to you?

If the latter, I'm terribly sorry for your bad experience. I've been living here for nearly three years now and hope that you find some comfort in the knowledge that your experience was a radical outlier. Every hobo, pusher, and prostitute that I've run into gracefully accepts "No, I'm sorry/thank you." for an answer. If the former, I suspect that "persistent but non-violent and/or polite" is a much clearer label for these sorts of folks. When you describe someone as "aggressive", it also carries connotations of "violent".

Also, the city's nested web of ineffectual homeless outreach/support programs is an entirely separate issue. (As is the city's "Make $60->$80k per year? Get a condo for 1/6th to 1/8th market price!" program. [This is their "low income housing ownership" program, BTW, which is entirely separate from their low-income housing rental program. (The rental program actually serves a pretty appropriate segment of the population.)])

EDIT: It's widely reported that free-of-cost meals are available to anyone who wants them in SF. I've seen documentation that indicates that -as long as one can get moving by 0700- one can roam the city and never be without three squares a day. I know that I live within four blocks of two active food banks that serve the homeless, and within eight of a very large church-run organization that does the same. See also, this guy's comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5297419

I've never seen anyone actually starving in the city, and I've walked through almost all parts of it, at all hours of the day and night. Folks get clothed and folks get fed. Folks often don't get psych medications or hospitalization that they need, but that's a whole other story. :/

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#44

Post by eli_gottlieb »

antr wrote: post #11
joejohnson wrote: post #3

From the quoted LA Times piece: "Unlike in previous booms, the tech industry isn’t creating as many middle-class jobs..." I don't believe this. There are tons of Software Engineer jobs paying around 80-100k in SF. That salary, in that city, puts you firmly in the middle class. However, I agree with this piece. The tech companies and the people of San Francisco as a whole need to really change things. A big part of th…

You make a great point, but would you agree with the following?: There are tons of Finance jobs paying around 80-100k in NY. That salary, in that city, puts you firmly in the middle class. Is this now (perceived as) middle class?

For the location, it indeed affords you what everyone thinks of as a middle-class lifestyle.

This is a pretty sad indication of how bad urban development policies have gotten.

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#45

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rayiner wrote: post #41

Here's my proble. I have no problem paying taxes and investing in my community. But I'd never want to invest in a city as absurd as San Francisco. It is interesting to observe how people in the finance industry in New York view taxation. They'll complain about it, but by and large they're pretty supportive of the whole system. Which is important, because they're responsible for some large fraction of the tax base, as…

The techies like SF's culture more than NYC's. Maybe they actually like a city run eclectically vs. the stod and boring north east style.

I've never noticed anything very disfunctional about SF: the police seem to work out, the public transportation seems to work out, there is a homeless problem but not an entirely huge one, tourists seem to be safe, the city has great parks.

Maybe you just don't like Californian liberals?

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#46

Post by seanmcdirmid »

OvidNaso wrote: post #33
vinceguidry wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The streets are filled with Porsches and Teslas driving by the many homeless people in SF everyday. One might argue that the homeless people wouldn't be there if the fabulous wealth weren't also there. That they can even be there should be a testament to the city's tolerance. In many places, local government does everything they can to remove them. SF has much more social conscience than a lot of people give it cre…

Portland treats the homeless well and its definitely not due to fabulous wealth. The homeless are not who we should focus on when talking about wealth inequality. Even though it makes a good visual, there are too many other factors at play such as mental illness. It's the working poor and the rich that are the true divide.

The northwest's homeless problem is a bit different from the rest of the countries; you'll see similar patterns in Seattle, Vancouver (BC), Portland, and even Spokane. There is something about "skid row" that has never went away in that area.

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#47

Post by seanmcdirmid »

simoncion wrote: post #42
pnathan wrote: post #38

My perspective is that the tech community at large - quite some time ago - abdicated integrating into the rest of the world. I invite a careful read of Barlow's bombast[1] from the early '90s and consider how that has played out into today. With the techie desire to remove politics and marketing and the overweening wish to be logical instead of emotional comes the abdication of dealing with the messy, compromising, a…

You say that the beggars were aggressive. Does this mean that they asked everyone for change, and even asked you whenever they saw you, or does it mean that they would touch you and/or get in your face and speak violently to you? If the latter, I'm terribly sorry for your bad experience. I've been living here for nearly three years now and hope that you find some comfort in the knowledge that your experience was a ra…

They are panhandling for drug/alcohol money probably, given that food is not that hard to come by. The same is true in almost any big city, though.

Aggressive panhandling to me is having little kids grab onto my legs and try to drag me. That only happens to me in non-developed countries.

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#48

Post by pnathan »

simoncion wrote: post #42
pnathan wrote: post #38

My perspective is that the tech community at large - quite some time ago - abdicated integrating into the rest of the world. I invite a careful read of Barlow's bombast[1] from the early '90s and consider how that has played out into today. With the techie desire to remove politics and marketing and the overweening wish to be logical instead of emotional comes the abdication of dealing with the messy, compromising, a…

You say that the beggars were aggressive. Does this mean that they asked everyone for change, and even asked you whenever they saw you, or does it mean that they would touch you and/or get in your face and speak violently to you? If the latter, I'm terribly sorry for your bad experience. I've been living here for nearly three years now and hope that you find some comfort in the knowledge that your experience was a ra…

They were... I guess the word is rude? Hustling with an edge? A sort of enterpenurial, even. This is not common in my experience with beggars. No violence, mind you. Just real pushy to close their deal.

I'm glad to hear that the meals organizations are effective. There were so many homeless. :-/

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#49

Post by pnathan »

jchrisa wrote: post #22

Part of the reason I moved away from the Bay Area is that no one seems to care about it. Everyone is too busy working all the time for their start up, and so there's very little in the way of community. Oakland seems to be the one exception, where it is cheap enough that you can live without dedicating your life to work. Surprise surprise, it turns out to be the place with the interesting restaurant and arts culture.

What about stories like [1]? Is that restricted to the "bad parts of town"? The impression I've always gotten is Oakland was the bad part of town.

(This is an honest question - not trying to be sarcastic. I havn't lived in the Bay area.)

[1] http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57599011/violence-in-o...

Re: The Tech Community Must Invest More In San Francisco

#50

Post by LordHumungous »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #45
rayiner wrote: post #41

Here's my proble. I have no problem paying taxes and investing in my community. But I'd never want to invest in a city as absurd as San Francisco. It is interesting to observe how people in the finance industry in New York view taxation. They'll complain about it, but by and large they're pretty supportive of the whole system. Which is important, because they're responsible for some large fraction of the tax base, as…

The techies like SF's culture more than NYC's. Maybe they actually like a city run eclectically vs. the stod and boring north east style. I've never noticed anything very disfunctional about SF: the police seem to work out, the public transportation seems to work out, there is a homeless problem but not an entirely huge one, tourists seem to be safe, the city has great parks. Maybe you just don't like Californian lib…

http://www.sfweekly.com/2009-12-16/news/the-worst-run-big-ci...
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