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Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

galenward.com

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Re: Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

#41

Post by galenward »

VandyILL wrote: post #15

I really don't understand what you're advocating or what mechanism you hope to develop. You basically want to put out bounties for law firms to take cases against patents? What patents would they target? What adversarial setting would they defend / attack patents in? Couldn't this result in a race to the bottom about what things people want in the public domain - ie. a bunch of people petitioning to have a law firm a…

I like the use / active-pursue requirement except it seems nearly impossible to enforce. A patent troll could easily spend money to look like they're trying to use a patent.

Re: Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

#42

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

jontas wrote: post #37
RyanZAG wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Couldn't this result in a race to the bottom about what things people want in the public domain - ie. a bunch of people petitioning to have a law firm attack Amazon's One-Click patent? Basically if someone made something desirable enough, then an efficient market would funnel enough money into trumping their patent through your concept, destroying whatever incentive the company had to make something valuable. " I se…

> Calling for changes to patent law is where I don't understand what you're hoping to accomplish. If there was going to be any change, it would already have happened. If true, that's a pretty depressing statement, however, it sounds like fallacious reasoning to me. Just because the law hasn't changed yet doesn't mean that things are doomed to stay this way forever.

The problem is that everyone with enough economic or political power to do something about the patent situation has a strong incentive to preserve the status quo, because they benefit from the competitive barrier large patent arsenals create just as much.

So no one wants to touch on meaningful reform, because that would blow up just as many of their own patents. Even companies that claim to amass patents purely for defensive purposes have this incentive.

There's also an agency problem. To fight patents you need patent lawyers, but patent lawyers have a strong incentive to expand the volume of patent litigation. It's like asking why the NYSE doesn't implement one of the simple solutions that would stop HFT: they're getting a cut on the volume of trades, so they don't care at all how decoupled from economic reality trading becomes.

Re: Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

#43

Post by marincounty »

1. Agree 2. Though about this a long time. 3. Believe their should be three tiered fee system for patents. 4. Low income entities--first two patents free. 5. High income entities--pay 2x current fees. 6. Anyone abusing the patent system would be barred for a certain amount if time, or life.

Re: Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

#44

Post by rdl »

marincounty wrote: post #43

1. Agree 2. Though about this a long time. 3. Believe their should be three tiered fee system for patents. 4. Low income entities--first two patents free. 5. High income entities--pay 2x current fees. 6. Anyone abusing the patent system would be barred for a certain amount if time, or life.

I don't think patent fees are meaningful to any organization filing for patents. Attorney costs are what, 50-100x the fees now?

Re: Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

#45

Post by zenocon »

galenward wrote: post #40
rorrr2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, I've seen requests for granted patents.

Interesting! Granted patents aren't re-reviewed, so someone would have to cough up a few tens of thousands of dollars to do anything with submissions on granted patents. Is the concept that people are contributing evidence to be used should someone challenge the patent?

Indeed, as stated, askpatents is not just for new patent applications. It's got a bit of head-wind right now, and the more people that get involved the better.

Re: Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

#46

Post by lukifer »

VandyILL wrote: post #35
RyanZAG wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Couldn't this result in a race to the bottom about what things people want in the public domain - ie. a bunch of people petitioning to have a law firm attack Amazon's One-Click patent? Basically if someone made something desirable enough, then an efficient market would funnel enough money into trumping their patent through your concept, destroying whatever incentive the company had to make something valuable. " I se…

A problem I see is that companies would have to spend time defending legitimate patents just because consumers want the technology to become widely available. The scheme could cause business to waste money litigating defensible patents just because there's enough stir / money behind advocacy for opening up the idea.

I would say that the burden of proof, and accompanying legal defense costs, should rest with those who seek a state-backed monopoly of an idea, rather than with patent "infringers" as it is now.

If it's a legitimate patent, it's likely to hold up, and/or be seen as too tough of a target, and so be seen as a waste of resources to go after.

Re: Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

#49

Post by JohnHaugeland »

I mean, (disclaimer: I'm an engineer there) you could use Crowdtilt for something like that. "Put together $x to fund lawyers to defeat patent Y" or "I know how to undermine Patent Z and I need to raise $x to make it work" or whatever.

I don't actually know enough about patent law to understand how this would need to be done, but if it's just a question of putting together money to fund professional counsel or research, you don't need something specific to this; there are several things in the existing crowdfunding ecosystem that can cover your needs.

And I am suspiciously going to neglect to mention the other ones.

But seriously, you can do this on a bunch of existing platforms, if it's just about putting money together, and if what you need is some kind of white label solution, so that it's focused around specifically that topic, you can do that on CrowdHoster (disclaimer: still crowdtilt.)

Re: Why isn't there a Kickstarter for killing patents?

#50

Post by icebraining »

marincounty wrote: post #43

1. Agree 2. Though about this a long time. 3. Believe their should be three tiered fee system for patents. 4. Low income entities--first two patents free. 5. High income entities--pay 2x current fees. 6. Anyone abusing the patent system would be barred for a certain amount if time, or life.

Regarding different tiers, what would prevent a large entity from creating smaller ones to hold their patents? In fact, they already do so, for others reasons.
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