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Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

pinknews.co.uk

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Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#41

Post by tehwalrus »

runn1ng wrote: post #10

There was an olympics in Beijing . So holding the olympics committee to some democratic standard probably won't work.

China doesn't have civil rights laws to protect homosexuals, but it has made it explicitly legal (1997), and removed it from lists of "mental illnesses" (2001)[1].

I'm aware it isn't a democracy, but it doesn't appear to sanction official discrimination in the same way as Russia on this issue. If you look at the rest of [1], you'll see it also has a long history of (debatable) tolerance for homosexuality.

(I am aware that is has a significantly different attitude to race than the UK and US, and I'm not sure I'm happy with it, but again I haven't heard of examples of official persecution, or police turning blind eyes to attacks on such minority groups.)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_China#People.2...

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#42

Post by bayesianhorse »

GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #27
ihsw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, Nazi Germany didn't arrest Jesse Owens upon arrival to the country. Russia has made it clear that they will not afford the same freedom to gays and lesbians, or more to the point they plan on arresting them immediately upon arrival.

I thought that they were going to ignore the anti-LGBT laws for the Olympics [0] [0] http://rt.com/news/russia-olympics-gay-law-948/

They clarified later that they are going to enforce that law.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#43

Post by wisty »

alexakarpov wrote: post #33
ronaldx wrote: post #17

> An absolute ban on the Russian Winter Olympics of 2014 on Sochi is simply essential. Wow, I couldn't disagree more on this point. One of the great things about the Olympics is that it's without politics [er... in this regard]. I don't believe that it's acceptable to say that places with different cultural values make unsuitable hosts. Human rights criticisms were also levelled at London, and even more at Beijing. I…

There's an old joke from Communist times. It goes like this -- and old communist argues: - What do you mean, we don't respect human rights? Of course we respect human rights! Why, I can provide the name of that human right now! Same goes for 'celebrating human achievements' you've mentioned. No such thing will happen. There's only one achievement allowed into the celebration - the achievement of United Russia Party a…

I can't resist.

"Comrade, what is Capitalism?"

"Capitalism is the oppression of man by man".

"And what is Communism?"

"It's the opposite of Capitalism".

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#44

Post by pandaman »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #7

He surely does. Most Russians have not once meet a person who they would know as an open gay. And still they've got an Opinion despite that. (Hitler's Germans had at least meet Jews in their life) It's a sad story about how media wrecks the minds of rednecks.

And most Russians are rednecks? Well, I guess racism is okay when it's for the left cause.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#45

Post by guard-of-terra »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #36
alexakarpov wrote: post #23

(Russian here) - Fry is 100% correct in his assessment. I pay a lot of attention to the wickedness of Russian politics, and, quite frankly, LBGTQ are right there at the very edge of Russian political struggle, being one of the very few groups whose very survival demands liberty (others may get by through kowtowing to the political powers, but they don't have that option). They are hated by an overwhelming majority of…

I can't believe no one is talking about how this all relates to revelations from the US state department cable leaks. The cables showed that the US State Department is actively involved in advancing anti-traditionalist groups in many countries. One of the cables went on quite a bit about how greater efforts are needed in France to promote multiculturalism and homosexual acceptance because so much of the nation remain…

Putin isn't combating propaganda, he's polarizing society using propaganda.

Imagine Putin holding a handle of twohanded saw, cutting society in half. That's what he does with the aid of US government.

If you're a traditionalist Putin isn't your bro. If Putin is your bro you're not a traditionalist, you're a vatnik.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#46

Post by alexakarpov »

dylangs1030 wrote: post #32
alexakarpov wrote: post #23

(Russian here) - Fry is 100% correct in his assessment. I pay a lot of attention to the wickedness of Russian politics, and, quite frankly, LBGTQ are right there at the very edge of Russian political struggle, being one of the very few groups whose very survival demands liberty (others may get by through kowtowing to the political powers, but they don't have that option). They are hated by an overwhelming majority of…

Thanks for your inside assessment. You said the same majority votes Putin into power...do you have anything you could cite for this, or is it your observation?

Google for his approval rating - it's high, even if you adjust it for all the rigging and such. Short story is: collapse of USSR brought a lot of suffering and despair to Russians (of course, there was no other way for it to end, but it's not something most Russians acknowledge or even think about -- "no time to think, gotta work, feed my kids"). Putin succeeded in building on this fear and nostalgia for times of security (which USSR did offer, however monstrously unsustainable). And one of the main unofficial slogans was, and is -- "liberty is bad for Russia; evil people, especially Americans, use it to poison our people". Of course, NSA spying or drone killings makes it harder to fight the propaganda -- all these grotesquely anti-American thing are pictured as the "real face of America" -- and good luck defending liberty in that light...

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#47

Post by bayesianhorse »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #7

He surely does. Most Russians have not once meet a person who they would know as an open gay. And still they've got an Opinion despite that. (Hitler's Germans had at least meet Jews in their life) It's a sad story about how media wrecks the minds of rednecks.

As long as gays stay in the closet, heterosexuals (and even homosexuals in large part) will feel homosexuality as "wrong".

The human mind defines "acceptable sexual context" by what it gets presented, especially early in life. That's why homosexuals have to display their sexuality in public, or the discrimination and homophobia will never end.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#49

Post by guard-of-terra »

pandaman wrote: post #44
guard-of-terra wrote: post #7

He surely does. Most Russians have not once meet a person who they would know as an open gay. And still they've got an Opinion despite that. (Hitler's Germans had at least meet Jews in their life) It's a sad story about how media wrecks the minds of rednecks.

And most Russians are rednecks? Well, I guess racism is okay when it's for the left cause.

Yeah, they are. There is this notion that USA has liberal coasts and (racist, intolerant, preaching) flyover hearland.

Guess what, Russia is very similar but doesn't really have any coasts. It's just rednecks all the way down. The world is 'gopniki'.

Re: Stephen Fry: Putin is making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews

#50

Post by ronaldx »

alexakarpov wrote: post #26
ronaldx wrote: post #17

> An absolute ban on the Russian Winter Olympics of 2014 on Sochi is simply essential. Wow, I couldn't disagree more on this point. One of the great things about the Olympics is that it's without politics [er... in this regard]. I don't believe that it's acceptable to say that places with different cultural values make unsuitable hosts. Human rights criticisms were also levelled at London, and even more at Beijing. I…

..and that's why Fry mentions that: "The idea that sport and politics don’t connect is worse than disingenuous, worse than stupid. It is wickedly, wilfully wrong. Everyone knows politics interconnects with everything for “politics” is simply the Greek for “to do with the people”.

OK, yes, it's this attitude which I was disagreeing with:

Sports and politics may be innately interconnected, but that doesn't mean we should seek to make sports even more political.

To have a requirement that the Olympics is hosted only in countries with political approval by [Stephen Fry/Western cultural values] would prevent it from having any global influence. Should the Olympics ultimately alternate between the EU and the US? Obviously not.

It's a good thing that political and cultural values of a country are not or are minimally part of the bidding and selection process.

If you're not aware, the IOC requires bidding countries to commit to IOC laws - which include special treatment and legal exemptions for athletes and visitors who may not otherwise be welcome. Although not without problems, I find that a sufficient way to make countries fall in line with the Olympic tradition without directly interfering with their local political process.

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