Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#41

Post by csomar » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:07 PM UTC

This is happening with me also. I'm a hacker (ok a developers) and my friends don't understand really what the web is, so I turn to spend 98% of my time in front of computer and avoid to go with them anywhere because their talk makes me headaches.

However (few months ago) I did found a friend that really understand me (although being tech-savvy) and we are projecting for the summer.

Keep searching, if in your area internet is widely used, you may find, I already find another one (she's a girl and work as a designer) using twitter, but not in the same city.

Be patient getting good friends need time

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#42

Post by pj » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:08 PM UTC

russell wrote: post #27

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

People are social animals. I think as analytical people we forget this aspect of our humanity a lot. So you need to feed that social part of yourself without doing, time-consuming and mostly pointless things, like getting drunk with the guys and watching naked women dance. If you dig naked women dancing, get HBO. Or just surf the net. As a consultant, I go through phases of alone down-and-working hacking, when I'm no…

Agreed. You (the OP) need to be socialized. :-) There is a phenomenon I call the "Engineering Dance", where engineers and similar types go through a kind dominance ritual on first meeting, probing to see who is the most expert. This doesn't work in most social situations; most people dont like it. My SO has a masters in math and a minor in CS, but we dont talk about my work much at all. She's a painter; we talk about…

All social groups do the "engineering dance" it's just the engineers do it nonviolently and are better able to decipher intellectual capabilities without damaging their ego.

It's a natural law. It's supply and demand. Chickens for example will fight over food if it is not dispersed on the ground so they can all get to it. They will fight and establish a hierarchy so they can all get to the food in an orderly manner. Lions do it. The males eat first because they are strongest, and on and on.

The difference with Engineers is that they see the world is full of opportunity for them so there is no lack of demand for their talents.

I've seen the "violent" approach with some of the less intelligent bosses I've had. They'll try to fire you or damage your reputation within the organization. The more intelligent bosses give positive incentives to remain and treat their people well.

The propensity to rule by force is inversely proportional to IQ. This is true at all levels of biology from amphibians to nation states.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#43

Post by edw519 » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:09 PM UTC

xenophanes wrote: post #33

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can I say? I'm a karma whore. I just restate the obvious and bask in the upvoting love. ;) Seriously though, I thought long and hard about hitting the submit button. Too many times somebody comes to the group with an honest question and then we rag all over them. It's easy to be critical! As hackers we are really good at finding faults. But I tried to put myself in his shoes. After all, he came for some feedback…

> > give up the I'm-so-smart routine. Trust me, you're an idiot like the rest of us > What can I say? I'm a karma whore. I just restate the obvious and bask in the upvoting love. It's weird that insulting the OP and myself is a method of karma whoring. Anyway, downvoted for being so pessimistic and then calling your ideas "obvious" which is arrogant (and moments after you implied the OP is arrogant by saying he overe…

Perfect example of sarcasm not translating well in this format. I got it. And used my one vote to go back up.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#44

Post by pj » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:10 PM UTC

spkthed wrote: post #25

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

People are social animals. I think as analytical people we forget this aspect of our humanity a lot. So you need to feed that social part of yourself without doing, time-consuming and mostly pointless things, like getting drunk with the guys and watching naked women dance. If you dig naked women dancing, get HBO. Or just surf the net. As a consultant, I go through phases of alone down-and-working hacking, when I'm no…

That's a pretty good response. Intelligence has nothing to do with intellectual abilities. 'Idiot savants' can do brilliant and amazing things. The smartest people in the world have trouble remembering where they put their glasses. Some people can recall every detail of every minute of their lives. People are simply different. The people that feel that they are smarter than others are often way down the line. The rea…

That's a very good point. Perhaps that also adds to the nonviolence of the Engineering Dance. Less intelligent people want to maintain power by being the top dog and more intelligent people want to learn from those above them and therefore be the bottom dog where there is more room to grow and "move up" so to speak.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#45

Post by pj » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:14 PM UTC

RiderOfGiraffes wrote: post #9

I felt like that until I was 19. I joined Mensa, and found people who loved puzzles, knowledge, intelligence and discussion. When I moved town and did my PhD I found the local Mensans complete prats, but the university gave me the stimulation I needed. You need to find people with whom you can be yourself, but equally, you need to learn how to get on with people in general. I learned a lot from Dale Carnegie's "How t…

That's the trick! Find something interesting about people. People want to be appreciated and /almost/ everyone has something to appreciate. As an intelligent person, your job isn't to be more interesting than other people, it is to find the interesting things in others.

It's like playing games. Over time, if you always win, people stop wanting to playing with you. Find games they can win and lose frequently until you win all the time then find a new game to play with them together.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#46

Post by pj » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:20 PM UTC

Your predicament is more common than you may think. There's a book called "Pretending to be Normal" it's about an aspie. You may not be an aspie, but a lot of what the author goes through and her behaviors could be lessons for you.

http://www.amazon.com/Pretending-Be-Normal-Aspergers-Syndrom...

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#47

Post by pradocchia » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:22 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #32

russell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. You (the OP) need to be socialized. :-) There is a phenomenon I call the "Engineering Dance", where engineers and similar types go through a kind dominance ritual on first meeting, probing to see who is the most expert. This doesn't work in most social situations; most people dont like it. My SO has a masters in math and a minor in CS, but we dont talk about my work much at all. She's a painter; we talk about…

Let me say: I think that getting a girlfriend who will up and tell you when you are being an ass (later on, in private) is one of the best things you can do! "Engineering Dance" -- Guilty as charged! Brilliant name for it.

the engineering dance is hugely annoying. my preferred mode is socratic--ask a lot of questions, stake out a minimal position--but with engineer types this is usually misinterpreted as accepting the other person's superior expertise. whereupon said expert proceeds to shut his ears down and hold court.

over a period of several weeks i can steer the mode of conversation around, but for casual encounters i have more or less accepted the subordinate position.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#48

Post by russell » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:26 PM UTC

ilitirit wrote: post #39

russell wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. You (the OP) need to be socialized. :-) There is a phenomenon I call the "Engineering Dance", where engineers and similar types go through a kind dominance ritual on first meeting, probing to see who is the most expert. This doesn't work in most social situations; most people dont like it. My SO has a masters in math and a minor in CS, but we dont talk about my work much at all. She's a painter; we talk about…

> Most people have a socially adept friend I don't think this came out very well in my post, but I think I am very socially adept. I'm the "socially adept friend" that you're talking about.

Well then, you just need to introduce yourself to yourself. :-)

My old neighborhood was very close knit with lots of neighborhood functions. Our responsibility was the Halloween party. Me ex knew the wives of everyone, VC's, congressmen, academics, and just plain neighbors. The party was so popular that strangers from 15-20 miles away asked to be invited. We divorced and both moved away. I told one of my daughters that I missed the closeness of the old neighborhood. She told me that my ex was the social glue. It's just an ordinary neighborhood now.

My suggestion is to throw occasional, family friendly celebrations (not the standard cocktail party) with a couple of other co-hosts. Family friendly, because the SO's greatly expand the contacts. If there isn't a readily available occasion, celebrate Guy Fawkes day or something suitably oddball. If you make it potluck, it isnt even expensive. It's easy to get a reputation for gatherings of interesting people (except for maybe DC and Manhattan :-).

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#49

Post by stcredzero » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:33 PM UTC

russell wrote: post #40

stcredzero wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me say: I think that getting a girlfriend who will up and tell you when you are being an ass (later on, in private) is one of the best things you can do! "Engineering Dance" -- Guilty as charged! Brilliant name for it.

I definitely agree on the girlfriend, but from my experience that's even more difficult than learning social graces. It takes a perceptive woman to realize that underneath is a really good guy that just needs some help. Young women are often as dense in their own way as hackers. It took me years and the experience of a bad marriage to become acceptable to a good woman.

Agreed, it took me years of being a jerk to women plus the good fortune of an ex turning into a friend and smacking me with the truth.

My solution also involved perception, but on my part. I was able to spot the potential in a quiet, wallflowery girl at a party. Now I am blessed with a a very sweet, patient, intelligent, perceptive, and demurely sexy girlfriend.

Another piece of advice -- all you nerdy guys out there who check off all the races except "African American" on dating site preferences -- do yourself a favor and stop it. There's lots of really cute nerdy gals out there who just happen to have a bit more melanin.

Re: Ask HN: "Dumbing yourself down" around your peers?

#50

Post by xenophanes » Sun, May 17, 2009, 6:40 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #38

xenophanes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > give up the I'm-so-smart routine. Trust me, you're an idiot like the rest of us > What can I say? I'm a karma whore. I just restate the obvious and bask in the upvoting love. It's weird that insulting the OP and myself is a method of karma whoring. Anyway, downvoted for being so pessimistic and then calling your ideas "obvious" which is arrogant (and moments after you implied the OP is arrogant by saying he overe…

I think you misunderstood what I've said, or I wasn't clear enough. In my opinion, I added nothing much of value aside from simply re-assembling the ideas everybody else already had. Arrogance was never my intention. I'm simply saying I don't see much new that I added. It's a reply to a complement -- thanks, but it wasn't that big of a deal. This type of sentence construction happens all the time in normal conversati…

"an idiot like the rest of us" insults me. I am one of the rest of us but prefer not to be called an idiot.

Regarding arrogance, saying your ideas are obvious (obviously true) is arrogant. Whether you intend for the statement to be arrogant is irrelevant to whether it is arrogant.

Saying things are "out of bounds" and therefore refusing to consider them is out of bounds in rational conversation.

My guess is: none of this is you communicating poorly or me misunderstanding. Rather, it's that your statements have meanings beyond the ones you had in mind while writing them.