Live data from Hacker News

Little Lisp interpreter

hackerschool.com

41–49 of 49 posts

Re: Little Lisp interpreter

#41

Is there some reason why every code segment inside not one but two scrolling frames? And does anyone else dislike web design that (1) limits the text to a column a third of the page wide, and then (2) because this is too small, requires a horizontal scrollbar on code segments? For an explanation of a small Lisp interpreter (in Python) that uses sane web design, one might consider Norvig's http://norvig.com/lispy.html

Thanks for pointing that out. The double-scrollbar was a CSS bug which was only showing up in some browsers. It should be fixed now. I agree this page should be wider for posts like this.

At first I thought it was some play on recursion and though "neat", but then I realised it was probably just an error...

Re: Little Lisp interpreter

#42
post #29

Writing a Lisp interpreter is an opportunity to write a really beautiful program, do not waste it by stopping at a first version that sort of works. A nice implementation should read almost like a spec of the language, except maybe for the more prosaic parsing part. Look at the Norvig article, or at the implementation of Ian Piumarta for inspiration: http://piumarta.com/software/lysp/lysp-1.1/lysp.c

Yeah but... which spec?

(pun intended)

Re: Little Lisp interpreter

#43
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Write it in a Lisp" or "Use a Lisp as an extension language" don't work? (Last time I tried the latter the more vocal members of the user base complained so much the entire effort died. That was in 2000.)

Details, please? (If you're so inclined.)

The existing product was a C code base that had been hacked upon for 16 years (!), with several distinct breaks in continuity. Sufficiently bad that it took hours of investigation to make the slightest change safely, and its performance was increasingly unacceptable, plus it was buggy. I've done a lot of "code archaeology" before and some since, and this is the first time I decided a code base was a total loss with no insurance. So the deadly total rewrite was planned.

The business model was "gated open source", as in paying customers got source, the users were almost without exception system administrators, not programmers, and with one exception who was something of a programmer (at least he did more with the awful code base than any other user) and willing to give it a try, they demanded the "extension" language (actually the complicated business logic) be in Perl ... despite to our knowledge at there were no successful examples of this, whereas Lisp has many, with EMACS and AutoCAD being famous wild successes. (The whole thing couldn't be in Perl because of performance requirements.)

Despite being the only programmer working on it and not seriously experienced with Perl, I got overruled. The CEO, the only manager, was the sort who during this time of decreasing revenue felt compelled to move from Class B to Class A office space (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office#Grading), and more of it---yet somehow the 3 technical people supporting almost all revenue got allocated only one office, which was tight for 2 people, and I'm one of those who needs quiet for maximum productivity (the other two were sysadmins and technical support, and had to do a lot of the latter over the phone. Whine, whine.)

Basically, only with maximum productivity on my part was this possible to pull off (and I've done this sort of thing before), as the users were years overdue for real technical fixes and progress (long before I arrived).

The board got really upset, the executive director blamed me and they believed her (I after all had been there for less than 2 years and had been able to do only one month of programming in my first year due to Y2K and other sysadmin and tech support demands) ... I had to bail.

It was partly my fault, I was not very productive for several months after my major architectural decision was vetoed and that work was dumped, which happened roughly the time the office move made the company's financials likely terminal, and I should have outright refused the CEO when she demanded I drop everything to help try to sell more of the old (which her fantasy budget demanded) and pre-sell versions of the new (then again I have to wonder if that would have made any difference).

The company died an ugly death, but not before firing in revenge a close friend I'd hired to do system administration and tech support.

Bleah. Bottom lines: avoid recruiting your friends because the company may later go to hell, if you observe the former then don't stay at places that don't respect programmers, can't keep them, and who don't have their eye on the ball of what brings in the cash. None of this was apparent when I accepted their offer, but I'm sure most of us know that story.

Re: Little Lisp interpreter

#44

I wrote one in erlang that works pretty well and is even designed to be able to call into erlang functions (if I took it that far). https://github.com/breckinloggins/erlisp I'm currently working on writing one in Haskell using the Scheme48 tutorial [1], though I'd eventually like to replace the evaluator with an F-Algebra[2] so I can learn about that. https://github.com/breckinloggins/scheme48 As a side note, would a…

I'm writing up a tutorial on F-algebras and compositional data types. I'd love if you read along and helped me to make it better.

https://www.fpcomplete.com/user/tel/from-zero-to-comp-data

Re: Little Lisp interpreter

#46
Any environments, list-aware reader, closures or just parenthesized prefix notation translated to JS or Haskell?)

btw, not related to OP, those guys who think it is so clever to translate some primitive subset of Scheme into Haskell should appreciate that writing Scheme interpreter in Scheme is a part of CS61A course and it takes one page of much more readable code.

If, for some reason, you wish to write something other than toys, look at Mark Freeley, to realize that serious Scheme system is hard.

Re: Little Lisp interpreter

#47
post #4

If you find that interesting, you should probably take a look at this: http://michaux.ca/articles/scheme-from-scratch-introduction I had fun following along with him. Now, if he (or I can get my shot at it finished) can ever finish working on the byte-code based version!

You might enjoy Lisp in Small Pieces. Is one of my favorite books The book is in two parts. The first starts from a simple evaluation function and enriches it with multiple name spaces, continuations and side-effects with commented variants, while at the same time the language used to define these features is reduced to a simple lambda-calculus. The second part focuses more on implementation techniques and discusses…

If anyone's considering it, now is the time. I've watched it for the last five months. The used price almost always hovers at 80 dollars. It is currently 54 dollars. I'd buy it myself if it weren't just going to sit on my shelf, unopened, the next five months.

Re: Little Lisp interpreter

#48
post #44

I wrote one in erlang that works pretty well and is even designed to be able to call into erlang functions (if I took it that far). https://github.com/breckinloggins/erlisp I'm currently working on writing one in Haskell using the Scheme48 tutorial [1], though I'd eventually like to replace the evaluator with an F-Algebra[2] so I can learn about that. https://github.com/breckinloggins/scheme48 As a side note, would a…

I'm writing up a tutorial on F-algebras and compositional data types. I'd love if you read along and helped me to make it better. https://www.fpcomplete.com/user/tel/from-zero-to-comp-data

Bookmarked! And I loved that you snuck in the zygohistoprepromorphism thing.

Re: Little Lisp interpreter

#49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm writing up a tutorial on F-algebras and compositional data types. I'd love if you read along and helped me to make it better. https://www.fpcomplete.com/user/tel/from-zero-to-comp-data

Bookmarked! And I loved that you snuck in the zygohistoprepromorphism thing.

Excellent!

I'm definitely going to go through Edward Kmett's recursion-schemes library which has the zygohistoprepromorphism in it. While I plan to cover topics to make comprehension of the zhppm easier, I don't know that I'll examine it in particular.

Unless I just do for fun, because it's not actually terrifically complex... just sort of a joke name for a relatively simple, abstract idea.

Post reply on HN