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Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

lehrblogger.com

41–50 of 52 posts

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#41
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also don't want to be recorded by convenience store or shopping mall cctv, or by repo man ANPR, or by red light / speeding cameras. We've lost that argument though. What I would like to see, is for there to be appropriate responsibility assumed by the people taking advantage of the privilege of recording everything. I eagerly await the first few court cases where someone drunkenly records and uploads to youtube som…

I'm genuinely curious: why don't you want to be recorded at malls et al? What's the difference between such surveillance and a security guard wondering around looking for suspicious activity and/or protecting shoppers/businesses? Surely, it can be abused, but it can also help protect "suspicious" individuals from being profiled/targeted maliciously by such security guard, for example. What if you were hit an intersec…

> What's the difference between such surveillance and a security guard wondering around looking for suspicious activity and/or protecting shoppers/businesses?

Scale and awareness?

Scale, because if you ask that guard, who was buying what with whom, 742 days ago, chances are that guard won't be able to answer in any meaningful way. A database might (if eg: indexed on biometrics).

Awareness, because we come to ignore cameras, while if someone is actually there, looking at you, you are aware of being watched. (And also aware when their back is turned, so you can sneak a kiss from your mistress, or whatever you're not comfortable doing "on the permanent record" -- but might not be wrong).

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I no longer trust these established indicators. I now feel justified in assuming that backdoors are built into most systems and that Glass could be recording at any time, without my approval and without any indication.

It’s possible to wire the LED directly to the power of the camera. That way if the camera receives power the LED is also on. There is no way to change this behaviour in software. (This is how the indicator lights on Macs and presumably many other indicator lights are wired up.)

No, but it is comparatively easy to change this behaviour in hardware, so what's the point? Having an indicator that, "very often" works, is in some ways worse than not having an indicator at all...

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#43

I've stayed out of this debate so far for various reasons, but there is a specific privacy issue with Glass that I haven't noticed anyone else raising yet. It is inevitable that Google Glass will have real time facial recognition, whether Google wants them to or not ( http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-06/11/google-glass-... ). Or, that a similar product offering that capability hits the market once Glass becom…

Can we discuss why mugshots.com is still the top result? Their main pitch is:

UNPUBLISHING SERVICE FROM

THE MUGSHOTS.COM DATABASE

HOURS OF OPERATION: 7AM -11PM EST

Which seems to be extortion. If they were a group of people deeply concerned about convicts in their midsts that would be a different issue, but they seem to be running a "pay us and we'll go away" business model, which it seems reasonable to beliebe the search engines should punish in the same way they do content farms.

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is amusing that you mentioned this because google's business strategy is to steadily erode the privacy of all human beings and monetize it at each step. they can try to dance around this all day with marketing and it doesn't matter. it's only a matter of time before the glass hardware has an attachment that reads your mind so you exert even less effort than currently, e.g. blinking. google will then take that data…

"google's business strategy is to steadily erode the privacy of all human beings and monetize it at each step" I wonder if most Googlers have faced up to this reality yet? Or if they simply don't care, or think the money, perks, and "cool stuff" that they get to work on makes it all worth it?

[deleted]

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#46
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is amusing that you mentioned this because google's business strategy is to steadily erode the privacy of all human beings and monetize it at each step. they can try to dance around this all day with marketing and it doesn't matter. it's only a matter of time before the glass hardware has an attachment that reads your mind so you exert even less effort than currently, e.g. blinking. google will then take that data…

"google's business strategy is to steadily erode the privacy of all human beings and monetize it at each step" I wonder if most Googlers have faced up to this reality yet? Or if they simply don't care, or think the money, perks, and "cool stuff" that they get to work on makes it all worth it?

i think most people are unwilling to acknowledge such a problem with their business strategy exists, and if they do acknowledge it, are unwilling or unable to grasp the full extent of the problem. google, like many large organizations, hides malicious actions behind a veil of complexity. "don't be evil" is certainly a matter of perspective.

i will refrain from citing other examples of hiding behind the veil of complexity since i don't want to "poke the bear" :)

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#47
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our existing mobile devices can be used in similar creepy ways, but we've learned to discern between the postures people use for taking photos with their phones, and their postures for doing everything else with their phones. We certainly pay an "attention tax" to maintain an awareness of nearby devices, but we've gotten over the creepiness. It's possible that we'll learn similar patterns for Glass. While we won't kn…

Exactly. I think it boils down to the fear that we don't know when the camera is active. When we're holding out our smart phone in a certain way, people know we're taking a photo. Google could build glass with a bright flashing on-air light, which would help, but absent obvious physical gestures, we'll wonder wether the device has been rooted to disable the light. Don't get me wrong, I do think its unfortunate, becau…

Yeah, I understand. I was speculating about possible changes to social norms and body postures in response to recording technology like Glass. As an alternative to an indicator light, maybe Glass-wearers will learn not to look at other people at all, so as not to give the impression that they are recording. Similarly, perhaps there are ways that we held our pre-camera cell phones that would now imply recording, so we've all subconsciously learned to hold our new phones differently.

In other words, it could be a lack of obvious physical gestures that indicates we are not recording, rather than the presence of obvious physical gestures that indicate we are recording.

A world in which we don't 'point' our heads at strangers is definitely weird and possibly undesirable, but interesting to think about.

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#48
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think you have a right to tell someone else what they can record in a public place? You cannot have an expectation of privacy in public.

(This is the beginning of a much longer comment I wrote in another thread a few days back - see the full version here if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6043640 ) "You have no expectation of privacy when in public." I'm seeing this objection a lot lately, and perhaps I'm showing my age here, but I've certainly got an "expectation of being largely individually anonymous when in public". While t…

> Personally, I'm of the opinion that "public space personally identifiable data collection" should be regulated similarly to HIPPA.

I don't think that's possible; I don't think regulation can work here. Things like HIPPA and PCI regulate a very small number of providers. Regulating the general public at large from getting a picture of you in public on their Google Glass type device just isn't really technically or socially feasible and that will be where the majority of this type of surveillance happens. Beyond that, the next generation doesn't have the privacy expectations that you do; they see you as an old man clinging to old ways.

> I _don't_ expect people(/corporations/tlagencies) to be recording everybody in public spaces and archiving them permanently in ways that allow all archived recordings of me to eventually be crossreferenced and de-anonymised.

Then adjust your expectations, because that is the future and it won't and likely can't be stopped. Have a look at the movie A Scanner Darkly to see a more feasible solution, anonymous masks worn by those who don't want to be seen.

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#49
post #42
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible to wire the LED directly to the power of the camera. That way if the camera receives power the LED is also on. There is no way to change this behaviour in software. (This is how the indicator lights on Macs and presumably many other indicator lights are wired up.)

No, but it is comparatively easy to change this behaviour in hardware, so what's the point? Having an indicator that, "very often" works, is in some ways worse than not having an indicator at all...

Uhhhh … how so?

Yeah, if someone has actual physical access to your device they might be able to detach the LED. Not easy to do – but imaginable. But that is hardly an in any way relevant scenario.

Re: Why you’ll want everyone you know to wear Google Glass

#50
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(This is the beginning of a much longer comment I wrote in another thread a few days back - see the full version here if you're interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6043640 ) "You have no expectation of privacy when in public." I'm seeing this objection a lot lately, and perhaps I'm showing my age here, but I've certainly got an "expectation of being largely individually anonymous when in public". While t…

> Personally, I'm of the opinion that "public space personally identifiable data collection" should be regulated similarly to HIPPA. I don't think that's possible; I don't think regulation can work here. Things like HIPPA and PCI regulate a very small number of providers. Regulating the general public at large from getting a picture of you in public on their Google Glass type device just isn't really technically or s…

You're probably right…

To clarify though…

I don't expect to "stop" Larry or Serge (or anyone else) from walking through Delores Park with their Glass on while I'm there (at the same time, I fully expect the doorman at Zeitgeist to tell em "Sorry, you can't come in here with those"). An individual recording stuff they're seeing anyway is pretty much "their right" - what they then choose to do with that recording though, is just as much their responsibility. For example, if you record someone walking out of Good Vibrations or Crazy Horse, and you choose to upload that to YouTube to make fun of them, and that person then loses their job over it (perhaps at the church-owned school they work at?) - I'd like to see you held to account for that action (and held financially responsible for breaching someone else's privacy).

This is actually codified into my local (NSW, Australian) Law in part. It's legal to record (audio and/or video) any interaction you have with a police officer. It's _not_ legal to "publish" that recording without the officers consent. Practically, it's been determined that you can't introduce a recording of your interaction with police as evidence in court (at least without the recorded police's agreement), but you _can_ tell the judge you've got a recording that proves a police officer is lying in his testimony, and the judge can request to see the recording. This has become very well known amongst profiled and targeted groups (for me, many motorcycle riders indiscriminately targeted as "outlaw motorcycle gang members" routinely record all police interactions and several high-profile lawyers recommend it).

Where I think this become important - is when many such recordings are collected together. Larry and his Glass, you and your Glass - they have small scale privacy implications, and barring those users doing something obviously stupid with them (which is no different from cellphone camera "etiquette" - if you go hanging outside abortion clinics, mental health clinics, drug rehabilitation centers, or schools with your camera/phone/Glass - and distribute the pictures you capture, you should expect consequences). I think though that Google (or anybody else) should consider the collection of many many user's Glass images/video/audio to be a potential-nightmare privacy problem _for them_. Before they start archiving all that, I think someone should be asking the same sort of questions you'd ask the junior developer who says "I'm just logging all the form data, so we can use it for debugging later" - You'd be asking "Hang on, _all_ the form data? The personally identifying information? The credit card number/expiry/ccv? The social security number? The medical history? And you're just writing that all out in cleartext to the public webserver logfles? Ummm, nope. I've just revoked your commit credentials and powered down the webserver - you might want to gather your things, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out…"

I don't think it "shouldn't be allowed", but I do think people implementing wholesale gathering of "public space personally identifiable data" should be held to high standards of responsibility for having that collection - "High" as in "if we screw up and this data get misused/exposed/stolen, that'll be to a very high level of likelyhood a CEO/CTO/company-destroying event" standards. You don't "just collect all the health information you can", you don't "just collect all the credit card information you can", _I'd_ like public-space surveillance to be the same. I'd like mall operators to say "Of course we don't archive video surveillance - we've got procedures and policies in place to delete all recordings over 1 week old unless we get a written police request for specific cameras/times/persons-of-interest, and we have a monthly task that checks and ensures that policy is adhered to."

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