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Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

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Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#41

Post by versk »

LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #9

A couple of years ago at a Linux conference in Germany I had a discussion with a Microsoft employee at their booth. At that time I was a 'hardcore' linux user with no trust in Microsoft at all. The discussion with the employee went like this: Me: "Hello. Could you tell me what Microsoft is doing at this Linux conference? I honestly want to know that." Him: "We are here to show how our products can work well together…

I keep hearing this on HN and reddit, but I think this is a mainly an echo-chamber effect. I'd say its far more likely that the vast majority of people don't actually care or realise what was happening, or they do realise and still don't care. I'd be surprised if the NSA leaks have any noticable impact on Microsoft's revenue.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#42

Post by tripzilch »

duiker101 wrote: post #15
LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #9

A couple of years ago at a Linux conference in Germany I had a discussion with a Microsoft employee at their booth. At that time I was a 'hardcore' linux user with no trust in Microsoft at all. The discussion with the employee went like this: Me: "Hello. Could you tell me what Microsoft is doing at this Linux conference? I honestly want to know that." Him: "We are here to show how our products can work well together…

To me seems you were just kinda rude to some guy that was getting paid to do his job.

Indeed the guy most certainly didn't know shit. On the other hand, rude or not, Lina turned out to be right and the MS-guy turned out to be ignorant of the type of company he was working for, as well as defending.

Additionally these so-called "paranoid" questions didn't came out of thin air either. 10-15 years ago I also was very distrusting of Microsoft and what they were doing (there was a lot of anti-trust going on ...). But somehow they starting doing a few things right, wrote some good software and OS in the mean time and they "regained my trust" to the point I'd speak out against senseless M$-bashing, and perceive it as something childish.

Well, that I am no longer going to do, lest I have to eat my words. That "trust" is completely gone, and I feel kind of foolish for believing it existed in the first place, "trust" is a kind of thing that happens between two persons, not between a person and a gigantic corporation. The latter is too volatile, there can be no build up or breakage, it's every moment again different, dependent on who is in charge and which individual personalities are involved in a decision. Rationally, one instant snapshot cannot make or break the trust of the next one.

I do feel kind of foolish. I'm typing this on Win7, planning to install Linux for a while now, but I had some crazy wild ideas for a dual-boot scenario in mind that I never got around to and everything just worked so there was no hurry.

Before next week I'll be back on Linux, maybe even sooner.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#43

Post by TheAnimus »

sounds wrote: post #19

Any serious discussion of moving US businesses off Microsoft stalls when it reaches the "non technical" departments. I put "non technical" in quotes because many of the people in HR, Accounting, Marketing, etc. are very tech-savvy. Marketing folks, for example, would love an all-Mac office setup, but they generally have to have Windows PCs for Powerpoint, Visio, and CRMs, to name a few. HR needs their IE6 in-house ap…

>I realize I'm not even talking about Linux here; I think that just underscores my point.

I've seen about 10-20% Linux use and about 0% Mac use in industry (Finance - Buy and Sell side). YMMV.

Linux is incredibly popular because people claim (rightly or wrongly) that they can have a lower latency setup. R-Project is very popular with people because they can have engineers customise it in ways not possible with Mat Lab.

But at the end of the day it all falls back down to MS Excel.

Apple don't have any enterprise ready tools for managing a system of 50,000+ client PCs and 30,000+ servers. So they don't get a look in, save the few iPads that are just perks and never used for any work that I've noticed.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#44

Post by twentyfourseven »

mikevm wrote: post #7

Dvorak's article is a regurgitation of previous HN discussions on this topic. I have said in the previous HN post and I will say it again here: don't pile on Microsoft alone. These spying policies make every US-based services company untrustworthy to whomever privacy is important. Come to think of it, I'm not sure whether you can rely on European services either because it seems that gov't surveillance is widespread.…

Let's boycott the hell out of Microsoft. They gleefully sold out their users to the NSA.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#45

Post by robryan »

hkmurakami wrote: post #28
quantumpotato_ wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To his job.. and lie?

A random Joe employee isn't going to know the details of a government backdoor (at least I'd hope so)

If companies can later claim that their employees statements weren't properly informed what is to stop companies making any claims they want via their lower level employees.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#46

Post by yuhong »

bad_user wrote: post #37
yuhong wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, remember that PRISM is designed to target foreign communications, so if you are an American, you might be actually safer.

That's bullshit. The problem that people like you don't seem to understand is that online communications can be secure, unless the companies owning the servers themselves cooperate and companies have to cooperate if they have to do so by law. It's only the US that has such a huge budget for spying on people's communications and the US is also part of a select handful of countries going to such great lengths to suppre…

True, but I am talking about the practical risk based on what is known about the spying.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#47

Post by yuhong »

twentyfourseven wrote: post #39
josteink wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "With that said, do you really want to buy a Microsoft product? Do you want to buy anything that gives easy access to snoops poking around at their leisure? You know... Up until this whole NSA/PRISM thing got uncovered, Microsoft had actually rather successfully started to rebuild the perception and image of its cloud-service Azure. It had shown the world that in less than a year, it was well on its way to catch up…

Exactly. Microsoft were making a comeback and I moved my email and online storage from Google to Microsoft. Now I feel back-stabbed. I don't use the hate word often, but I HATE Microsoft now. Just for the record, I think Dvorack is bang on with this article. Couldn't agree more.

Personally, I would not go that far. I mean, what is the practical risk?

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#48

Post by p37307 »

I think it is time to rethink everything, Not just Microsoft. Cloud computing is at risk now too. From Amazon to Google Drive, Gmail, etc. Shared hosting is not even secure any longer. Our connections from our isp can be the source of their spying.

People want the ease of computing not secure computing. The polls show it. In the US everyone but the geeks are OK with the NSA. Sad.

The system is going to have to change to federated data. Email, Social media, everything. Appliances owned by the individual. Either located in the home or small server appliances "rented" at a colocation facility and every user's info on their appliance. Any warrants are served to the individual not the "processing" or interpreting host that parses the data in their UI or service. The host, whether Facebook, Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc would notify the requester that that info is on a server rented solely by the user and they have no standing to grant or honor the warrant as they are the wrong party.

Please note I use voice typing due to fine motor control and this comment may contain errors.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#49

Post by dendory »

ygra wrote: post #6
polarix wrote: post #4

"Microsoft is oblivious if it is not doing something to divorce itself from the NSA" No John, unfortunately it is not really an option to move 57,000 employees and a headquarters out of the United States. That is what would need to be done. None of the people making statements for these large corporations are lying voluntarily.

I wonder how much pressure the NSA can and does exert on corporations that refuse to coöperate in this manner. And whether those on the list really had an actual choice in that manner. I guess a large government organisation has plenty of leverage if need be.

You mean would the NSA bring up the CEO of the company on random charges after he says no, put him in jail, and get someone more agreeable to run the company? They've done it before! Look up Qwest.

Re: Why We Can No Longer Trust Microsoft

#50

Post by amirmc »

mtgx wrote: post #5
acqq wrote: post #3

This is a financial disaster waiting to happen. Microsoft is oblivious if it is not doing something to divorce itself from the NSA. Apple, on the other hand, could have come out smelling like a rose, but following the death of Steve Jobs, who apparently refused to play ball with the NSA, it stupidly jumped on board to join the PRISM club. According to the Prism slides, it really looks so: "Dates when Prism collection…

That reminds me of Putin a little bit. Even if you think some leader is an asshole, sometimes you need an asshole to stand up to an even bigger bully. I just imagine someone like former president Medvedev (and with no Putin in sight) would've offered Snowden to US government on a silver platter, just like France, Spain, Portugal and Italy tried to do (fortunately unsuccessfully). I remember I was very much against Pu…

Your second sentence reminded me of the Dicks, Pussies and Assholes speech from Team America...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iCWzpDpKs

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