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Does a "time-out" mean that they're discouraged from attending or that they won't be issued badges?
They are politely discouraged from attending. I imagine that a person who says "I'm a fed" while buying a badge would not be issued one, but Defcon has no way to avoid issuing badges to feds who don't disclose their status.
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Will this actually affect the feds ability to attend or will they just attend in plain clothes? Or will they be able to attend as feds and just be looked down upon?
It may affect their ability to recruit.
That said, I doubt anyone interested in working for the NSA would be put off by this/the recent leaks, or that anyone who didn't want to work for the NSA was going to change their mind at DEF CON.
I'm skeptical. For the past few years that I've been attending, defcon felt at some times like an instrument for fed recruiting while paying lip service to its original "underground" feel. DT's message almost felt like posturing to underline the latter rather than a sincere statement to curtail the former. I won't pretend that I'm a long time attendee (my first was DC16), so I would love to hear from some more season…
Here, he's trying to pose as an anti-fed activist while simultaneously drawing a Department of Homeland Security paycheck.
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> Whatever you thought about Ron Paul, his politics would have prevented all of this. All of the wars. All the foreign aid. And we would live in paradise ;) This made me laugh. Considering how much Republicans and Tea Partiers are ostracized for making cuts, just imagine how much people would come down on a fiscally conservative basically Libertarian candidate in 2016 (even if he runs as a Republican).
Ostracized by who? People in the media or regular working class folk who pay plenty but get little? My parents both work and make money and the only real benefits that they have gotten as a result of trillions spent on war is that they'll continue to pay taxes for the rehabilitation of the soldiers whose bodies and lives have been destroyed. They MIGHT collect on social security, etc but given that they're still at l…
Both my parents have "retired" in the past year though they continue to work for money, and they were both a little bitter about how low the benefits are. I had to point out that at least they will probably get what they get. For those of us younger?
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They are politely discouraged from attending. I imagine that a person who says "I'm a fed" while buying a badge would not be issued one, but Defcon has no way to avoid issuing badges to feds who don't disclose their status.
Hmm... forgive my ignorance, but do they have the right to not issue a badge to anyone based on occupation? Sounds like discrimination. Hope they don't sue. ;)
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This is more about making a statement than anything else. Will the information still reach the feds? Sure. But the request is deliberately creating a delineation: the government is no longer for the people or part of the people, it exists for it's own sake. Will the government understand and ramp itself down? Whatever you thought about Ron Paul, his politics would have prevented all of this. All of the wars. All the…
> Whatever you thought about Ron Paul, his politics would have prevented all of this. All of the wars. All the foreign aid. And we would live in paradise ;) This made me laugh. Considering how much Republicans and Tea Partiers are ostracized for making cuts, just imagine how much people would come down on a fiscally conservative basically Libertarian candidate in 2016 (even if he runs as a Republican).
My understanding is that the overwhelming majority of Federal employees on official duty from FBI, DHS, DOD, NSA, etc.. that attend DEFCON (and related conferences) are actually not agents at all, but rather low ranking analysts whose job at the conferences are to assess the material presented and report back. This is opposed to, say, recruiting CIs or surveilling targets. Source: I asked a Fed.
So? I work for a private company. I 'report back' on the cool shit I saw, let people know what was around, what was popular, etc. It's a learning experience. Saying they 'report back' is useless. If you go to a con and don't talk with other people about the stuff you saw there it's almost wasteful.
I think I know what you meant though - they go and see what all the 'underground hackers' are up to.
The culture of DEF CON, and especially its evolution, is a very interesting one. When I first attended DEF CON, it was a bunch of seemingly scary hackers. Fortunately, it turns out most of them were amazing people.
As the conference grew (and changed venues several times), the culture began to evolve. The barrier to entry--in terms of being "accepted" into the subculture--lowered significantly. DEF CON stopped being a scary place, with goons that would "de-tech" you and throw you in the pool, and more of a mainstream event. For the most part, I'm completely supportive of where DEF CON's going. I'm definitely supportive of air conditioning in the venue, instead of standing outside in the sweltering Las Vegas summertime heat.
That said, though, it's not really a "hacker conference" anymore. Not more than its sister conference, Black Hat, or something like RSA, anyway.
DEF CON used to be about hacking. Not in the HN sense, but in the "illegal entry into networks" definition. Now, it's less about hacking and more about the actual information security industry; this is probably related to the fact that everyone I knew at the first DEF CON I attended (myself included) currently works in the infosec industry.
With growth, exposure, and the inclusion of white hats, DEF CON naturally became a recruiting ground for federal agencies, including law enforcement, the military, intelligence, etc. The 'spot the fed' game that began as a joke (with prizes!) soon seemed silly, since there were so many federal employees/recruiters/agents.
I'm all for DEF CON entering the mainstream. It's a conference and community that I've grown to love, and the lessons I've learned there (not to mention the friends I've made) have helped me immensely--both personally and professionally. That said, though, there's pretty much zero chance that this announcement DT made will have any effect whatsoever on federal agents, recruiters or representatives attending the con. More than anything, it's a huge publicity stunt.
After all, most of the staff and "old school" attendees work for "the man" now. For some, like me, it's just hacking for money; many, though, actually do work for defense and intelligence contractors. Should they be banned because of their affiliation?
Personally, I don't think so.
PS: If you're considering going to DEF CON and you've never been, you should! It's a booze-fueled learning, partying and networking event unlike any other. Plus, you get to hang out in Vegas for a weekend!
So I assume Dark Tangent won't attend his own con? Jeff Moss sits on the Homeland Security Advisory Board and is the CSO of ICANN.[1] If that's not "the man", I don't know what is. [1] http://www.dhs.gov/homeland-security-advisory-council-member...