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US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

irishtimes.com

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Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#41

Post by corresation »

grecy wrote: post #33
1337biz wrote: post #23

I still don't get why Russia is not just putting him on military transport to Cuba. They should have "some" experience flying that route without US interference. Nobody would mess around with a military transport and getting him out of the country would probably reflect on Russia better than just harboring him around at the transit zone.

> just harboring him around at the transit zone. Russia are not harboring him because he's not in Russia, he's in an international transit lounge and therefore not actually in any country. It has always shocked me that US airports don't have this concept, it must be the only major world transport hub that doesn't.

Russia are not harboring him because he's not in Russia

So what happens if you commit a major crime in that area? Who responds to a terrorist event there?

I don't know specific international laws, but I would guess that Russia has such an area for her own convenience (that if you are just passing through there's no need to bother with forcing you through Russian customs). But I would guess that Russia has every ability (and every legal right) to do whatever they want in that area whenever they want to, but is choosing not to on its own accord.

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#42

Post by justincormack »

grecy wrote: post #36
justincormack wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non extradition due to death penalty might work anywhere in Europe. It might not if US says it won't execute Snowden (if they lie, then no one will ever be extradited on that basis again, as that would be illegal from then on).

I don't think the US have any interest in the death penalty for Snowden. They'd much rather him rot without trial in Guantanamo for the rest of his life, as to serve a better lesson to anyone thinking of following his footsteps.

I don't think he could be extradited if he was going to not be tried either; that would also be illegal in the US as he is a citizen...

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#43

Post by hnriot »

Spearchucker wrote: post #32
xradionut wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US has other points of leverage on the Irish. (How about we close this nice tax scam you got going...)

Serious question: just how do you figure the US can close that tax loophole (it's law, so not a scam)? Did you know that it only works when money is routed through the Netherlands? And from there to the Caribbean or elsewhere? You're stretching it, implying the US can sway lawmakers abroad.

haha, how naive.

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#44

Post by embolism »

nicholassmith wrote: post #16

There was a funny line in The Social Network that went: `Like my brother and I are in skeleton costumes chasing the Karate Kid around a gym.` That's kind of what America looks like. Snowden has all these mighty military secrets, but at the end of the day they just look like school bullies who want to smack him around. What Snowden did is without a doubt a crime, but one that seems like it was necessary, and should be…

How do they resolve this without having him face a trial?

Also, there are some countries that are even less benign than then US who would like to take advantage of this situation if they can.

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#45

Post by grecy »

justincormack wrote: post #42
grecy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the US have any interest in the death penalty for Snowden. They'd much rather him rot without trial in Guantanamo for the rest of his life, as to serve a better lesson to anyone thinking of following his footsteps.

I don't think he could be extradited if he was going to not be tried either; that would also be illegal in the US as he is a citizen...

It's clear America doesn't care about doing illegal things, even to American citizens

See: holding Manning for years without trial, killing American citizens without trail (overseas)

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#46

Post by charonn0 »

mikeash wrote: post #30
nwh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bullet contains everything you need, not the gun. Lead and propellent, the gun is just a convenient tube and handle.

You're thinking of the cartridge. The bullet is just the projectile, and does not include the propellant.

You're all way over-thinking potatoes.

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#47

Post by jlgreco »

nwh wrote: post #29
mikeash wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rather stupid. Generally, it is not the bullet that is considered to be the dangerous weapon, but the gun which fires it. If the lawyer thinks a high-speed potato can't kill somebody, I suggest he go give it a shot (pun intended) and see what happens.

The bullet contains everything you need, not the gun. Lead and propellent, the gun is just a convenient tube and handle.

In addition to mikeash's correction, a round does not contain everything that you need. Without a chamber, a bullet is not going anywhere at a particularly dangerous speed. The casing is really not meant to contain the pressure of the burning propellant by itself and without a barrel then the expanding gases from the burning propellant would primarily dump their energy into the environment, not the bullet. In fact, without a chamber and barrel, the casing is actually more dangerous than the bullet, though still would not be deadly. This makes sense when you consider that the casing weights far less than the bullet.

The "tube" is essential, not merely convenient.

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#48

Post by grecy »

yardie wrote: post #40
grecy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just harboring him around at the transit zone. Russia are not harboring him because he's not in Russia, he's in an international transit lounge and therefore not actually in any country. It has always shocked me that US airports don't have this concept, it must be the only major world transport hub that doesn't.

> he's in an international transit lounge and therefore not actually in any country. What would prevent other asylum seekers or refugees from doing the same? Leave a war torn hell hole and camp out at Stuttgart International, sleep on the benches and busk or beg to get a meal. The fact that this doesn't happens means there are other reasons and the transit lounge isn't a DMZ as you claim.

You must legally purchase a ticket that gets you to a destination you are legally allowed to enter. 99.9999% of airlines won't let you board a plane without that, because they foot the bill if you get sent back.

I've been in many international transit lounges "in" countries I wasn't legally permitted to enter (no visa).. but I had an onward ticket to a country I could enter, so I was allowed to do it.

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#49

Post by lambersley »

I really don't understand the public outcry. In the eyes of all that matters, he broke the law. Snowden knew where he signed up to work. Noone with any amount of brain processing capability would be so naive as to think that sort of stuff wasn't happening via the NSA. I have worked for organizations that when I categorically disagreed with their business model and operating processes, I left. He had that choice. It was certainly not his job to hold the Agency accountable. His chosen method was certainly not the acceptable protocol. In fact, its highly illegal.

This does not mean that I agree with the US or any Gov't for that matter also breaking laws.

EDIT: "Why shouldn't I work for the NSA?" - Good Will Hunting, 1997 http://goo.gl/hjMHg

Re: US sends pre-emptive warrant to Ireland to stop Snowden flight refuelling there

#50

Post by csense »

wwhitman wrote: post #6

This made me think of a court case a few years back. The defendant was arrested for shooting a potato cannon (PVC pipe, BBQ grill lighter and hairspray for propellant). When the charges were read as using a dangerous weapon the defendant's lawyer replied that if a potato were a dangerous weapon then Ireland would be a superpower.

Where was this? If this was in the USA, wouldn't a potato cannon be protected by the Second Amendment?
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