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Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

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Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#41

Post by angersock »

DanBC wrote: post #23
c0ur7n3y wrote: post #6

I have to imagine their recruiting is going to suffer greatly due to the recent revelations. Very few smart people are going to want to join an organization that spies on their fellow citizens. Plus, the NSA is going to have to be even more skeptical of anyone they do recruit.

A lot of people just don't care. They want a job with other smart people and neat technology where they can do math in peace and quiet. See also "You don't need to worry if you don't have anything to hide" etc.

Truly it is a wonderful thing that the most anti-social and introverted people get to deploy technology affecting the common man.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#42

Post by PavlovsCat »

Kylekramer wrote: post #33
mikeash wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no sympathy. They willingly represent the organization. Nobody is forcing them to stay. They could leave, but they don't, thus implicitly accepting it.

I imagine the fear of not being able to provide for you or your family takes precedence over privacy concerns for the vast majority of people. There was a news report about how 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck last week. I'd argue saying "they could leave" assumes a lot.

If something in the exterior world makes you discontent, then it is not that object which troubles you, but rather your judgement of it; yet to blot out this judgement instantly is within your power. And if your dissatisfaction is based on the condition of your soul, who can prohibit you from correcting your views? Likewise, if you are discontent because you are not doing what seems reasonable to you, why not be active rather than discontent? "But something stronger than me is obstructing me." Still, do not be discontent; for the cause for your inaction is not within you. "But life has no meaning for me if this is not done." Well then, end your life, as calm as if you had succeeded; but don't forget to forgive your adversaries. -- Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

Everybody dies. Few people live.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#43

Post by jlgreco »

DanBC wrote: post #27
fvrghl wrote: post #2

Why are they doing student recruiting right now? I imagine all sessions would go like this.

Sales of horse meat rose after food contamination scares in UK. Also, we want ethical people working for them, because then there's more people to say "Is this legal?" when an order for intelligence comes in.

Horse meat was not the issue; the issue was mislabeled cow meat. What did cow meat sales do after the cow meat contamination news in the UK?

I don't buy the classic "change the organization from within" line. If that were the proper thing to encourage then we should all be running out looking for the most despicable corporations to work for and the most horrendous governments to pay taxes to.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#45

Post by md224 »

Kylekramer wrote: post #33
mikeash wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no sympathy. They willingly represent the organization. Nobody is forcing them to stay. They could leave, but they don't, thus implicitly accepting it.

I imagine the fear of not being able to provide for you or your family takes precedence over privacy concerns for the vast majority of people. There was a news report about how 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck last week. I'd argue saying "they could leave" assumes a lot.

This is a valid point, and it underscores the importance of being technologists in a (relatively) strong tech job market... we have the luxury of turning down jobs that we feel are part of detrimental systems. And we should take advantage of this luxury whenever we can. Others aren't so lucky.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#46

Post by HSO »

hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I have some sympathy for the recruiters since they really have no say in the high level decision making in the organization. They may not even be involved with domestic spying of citizens. But on the other hand they continue to stay at the organization so while I do feel some sympathy for their predicament,I guess it's really just up to each person to figure out whether they're really okay with staying there, given a…

The part where they try to hide behind "we are just doing our jobs" and "it's the politicians who generate the requirements" reminded me of SS members or concentration camp guards who later also claimed we just did our job.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#47

Post by eli »

mikeash wrote: post #17
hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I have some sympathy for the recruiters since they really have no say in the high level decision making in the organization. They may not even be involved with domestic spying of citizens. But on the other hand they continue to stay at the organization so while I do feel some sympathy for their predicament,I guess it's really just up to each person to figure out whether they're really okay with staying there, given a…

I have no sympathy. They willingly represent the organization. Nobody is forcing them to stay. They could leave, but they don't, thus implicitly accepting it.

I willingly live in a country that conducts surveillance. I could leave, but I don't. I guess I'm complicit too.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#48

Post by malandrew »

hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I have some sympathy for the recruiters since they really have no say in the high level decision making in the organization. They may not even be involved with domestic spying of citizens. But on the other hand they continue to stay at the organization so while I do feel some sympathy for their predicament,I guess it's really just up to each person to figure out whether they're really okay with staying there, given a…

I hate to invoke Godwin's Law because it never helps any discussion, so instead I'll refer to the discussion of Death Star politics and the impact on contractors:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdDRrcAOjA

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#49

Post by ajuc »

nugget wrote: post #25

As Federal employees, the men and women who work at the NSA swear an oath which dates back to 1884: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and fait…

Even atheists must do the part with God?
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