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Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

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Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#41

Post by coldtea »

leoedin wrote: post #32
coldtea wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a social site. HN members find those stories relevant. Perhaps some people (including, you, I presume) don't care about surveillance, privacy, freedom of information and the like enough to want to highlight those issues on HN. They'd rather talk about Google buying some company, how someone learned Golang and Node.js all day. But I wouldn't call those people "hackers". Not in the traditional cultural sense.

I think the point that the OP and others are trying to make is that there's plenty of places all over the world that satisfy those interests. Just because this site allows un-moderated user submissions and comments doesn't mean it's for general news. The OP and others (me included) are lamenting the fact that the popularist stories about social liberties are replacing the perhaps less popular stories about hardware d…

>The OP and others (me included) are lamenting the fact that the popularist stories about social liberties are replacing the perhaps less popular stories about hardware design or compilers or new research in computer science.

Those kind of stories were not that many to begin with.

Except if by "research in compSci" one means "My impressions after 1 day with Go", "Node.js cured my dog", "Web framework benchmarks 24", "Sexism in Babes-In-Bikinis-Coding conference", "LLVM 3, now with a ho-hum debugger as standard", "Functional concepts in BASIC", "Father of sextuplets,, startup founder, how I manage my time", "iOS 7 icons have colors I don't like".

Everybody has his gripes about this or that content. But it's the community that makes it all relevant. And those stories have huge implications on technology, the intertubes and enterprise.

>Unfortunately it has been demonstrated time and time again that popularity destroys communities.

That makes no sense. Except if you take it to mean: the guys that were there earlier don't get what they like anymore, and more (and newer) people get it. Which is a pretty hipsterish sense ("Oh, that band was cool when only I liked it").

Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#42

Post by coldtea »

dep_b wrote: post #28
coldtea wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas the tons of articles of US propaganda are OK, right? Including stuff that is said "matter of factly" but are blatant BS. If you think it has "argentinian government propaganda" point to it. Not to the obvious fact (that it was written by the argentinian president). Specifics. What is propaganda in it, what is bad about it, etc. Even more appreciated would be n extra line or two, of why "argentinean government…

Well first of all the Twitter channel of the president is a government propaganda channel, not a news channel. I don't disapprove of them doing that, they need to win another election and this is their stage. > [a word which here evokes the memory of the last dictatorship, which exterminated some ten to thirty thousand of its political opponents, a crime that wasn't successfully prosecuted until Sra. Fernandez and he…

>Well first of all the Twitter channel of the president is a government propaganda channel, not a news channel.

That's a circular argument. It's only a propaganda channel if the president it's dishonest. And even then, it's only propaganda if she is dishonest in THOSE particular tweets.

>That is a totally unnecessary glorifying addition not even present in the original tweets. Has little to do with the subject but hey let's drag it in. Happy to see those fuckers locked up though, no question about that.

For one, it's not even present on the original tweets, as you say.

I'd hardly call it "propaganda" by the president, that some random person on the internet put it as a "reference note" on his translation.

Not to mention that, Argentinians will read the original Spanish in her account and not the guy's english translation. So they won't even see it.

I don't see where's the "glorifying", either in his addition or the original tweet either. I mean, even if she did used the word "impunity" also as a reference to those people.

>Another addition that tries to justify the pretty questionable action of limiting the powers of the Supreme Court.

Perhaps -- but it also serves to give some context to the reader that doesn't know about this (and who, of course, doesn't vote in Argentina, so any propaganda won't do anything for him).

>I allow anybody to have an opinion but if this is clearly written by a staunch supporter of the government copying and adding to what I already consider propaganda I just want to let people know that it is what it is: propaganda.

Sorry, but I'm more of the impression that you are a staunch non-supporter of this government than the opposite!

I mean you took all this offence to a translation by some random guy (I think he's on HN too -- maybe the one who posted this), and two small additions of reference notes, that weren't even meant for the Argentinian voters (who will, of course, read the original spanish tweets).

Propaganda is too strong a word. You can publicly agree with a government and it's actions without being a "propagandist". If I say "the health reform in the US is a good thing" is that propaganda?

Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#43

Post by davidw »

coldtea wrote: post #40
davidw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the mental processes that lead you and others to think that if I don't enjoy politics taking over this site, then I must not care about the issues in question. Another site I read often is www.cyclingnews.com - they have great coverage of professional bicycle racing, which I love to read about and watch. You know what, though? I find politics annoying there too. You know where I like to read about…

> I don't understand the mental processes that lead you and others to think that if I don't enjoy politics taking over this site, then I must not care about the issues in question. It's a very simple process. People that like sites like this "segmented" and "pure" are mostly apolitical and don't care about the issues they want to expunge from them in the first place. I've seen such people in lots of other places. Hac…

So you presume to know what I think and to judge me "not really a hacker" because of what I read? That's certainly the kind of open-minded thinking I'm a fan of.

PLONK

Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#45

Post by GFischer »

muyuu wrote: post #30
mr_luc wrote: post #8

I've said it since early in Correa's campaign, and I'll say it again: that guy is a really special politician. He's his country's Bismark, but he's done it all democratically. I've been living down here 9 months per year for the last 7 years and it's been an interesting time. Check out his Enlace Ciudadanos on their youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/user/PresidenciaEc and you'll see how he goes way beyond the s…

Yep, I used to think he was just another regional populist, but he really is not. He's something else entirely.

Goes to show... I had branded him as another populist too, but I haven't researched much.

I'll have to look things up :)

Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#46

Post by wslh »

olvar wrote: post #38
wslh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know how many people is she humiliating in Argentina?

I don't see how your rhetorical question constitutes a point towards the importance of "emphasize that Cristina Fernandez has her own NSA project" in this discussion.

Can you clarify and expand your comment?

Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#47

Post by [deleted] »

davidw wrote: post #43
coldtea wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand the mental processes that lead you and others to think that if I don't enjoy politics taking over this site, then I must not care about the issues in question. It's a very simple process. People that like sites like this "segmented" and "pure" are mostly apolitical and don't care about the issues they want to expunge from them in the first place. I've seen such people in lots of other places. Hac…

So you presume to know what I think and to judge me "not really a hacker" because of what I read? That's certainly the kind of open-minded thinking I'm a fan of. PLONK

[deleted]

Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#48

Post by kragen »

dep_b wrote: post #28
coldtea wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas the tons of articles of US propaganda are OK, right? Including stuff that is said "matter of factly" but are blatant BS. If you think it has "argentinian government propaganda" point to it. Not to the obvious fact (that it was written by the argentinian president). Specifics. What is propaganda in it, what is bad about it, etc. Even more appreciated would be n extra line or two, of why "argentinean government…

Well first of all the Twitter channel of the president is a government propaganda channel, not a news channel. I don't disapprove of them doing that, they need to win another election and this is their stage. > [a word which here evokes the memory of the last dictatorship, which exterminated some ten to thirty thousand of its political opponents, a crime that wasn't successfully prosecuted until Sra. Fernandez and he…

I'm far from a "staunch supporter of the government", but I thought that those bits would be pretty hard to understand if you weren't from Argentina.

"Impunity" in English is mostly used in a metaphorical sense in these centuries, for example, and doesn't at all evoke the issue of not "locking up" "those fuckers". Without some kind of note, what I read as Cristina's allusion to her own legal battles would be lost on an English-speaking audience. Do you think I'm imagining the intended allusion, or just that it would be better not to explain it for some reason?

As for the medidas cautelares, I think my summary of what's going on is pretty even-handed. You can certainly argue that presidents shouldn't be trying to take legal acting against their political enemies, especially if they're media companies, or you can argue that breaking up big trusts is a perfectly legitimate thing for the government to do, in general.

I think "propaganda" is a perfectly reasonable description of what Cristina wrote. She's telling her side of the story, not Nicolas Sarkozy's or Anibal Cavaco Silva's. I think it's very informative to know what her side of the story is, and that's why I took the trouble to translate it.

Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#49

Post by kragen »

coldtea wrote: post #42
dep_b wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well first of all the Twitter channel of the president is a government propaganda channel, not a news channel. I don't disapprove of them doing that, they need to win another election and this is their stage. > [a word which here evokes the memory of the last dictatorship, which exterminated some ten to thirty thousand of its political opponents, a crime that wasn't successfully prosecuted until Sra. Fernandez and he…

> Well first of all the Twitter channel of the president is a government propaganda channel, not a news channel. That's a circular argument. It's only a propaganda channel if the president it's dishonest. And even then, it's only propaganda if she is dishonest in THOSE particular tweets. > That is a totally unnecessary glorifying addition not even present in the original tweets. Has little to do with the subject but…

> That's a circular argument. It's only a propaganda channel if the president it's dishonest. And even then, it's only propaganda if she is dishonest in THOSE particular tweets.

I don't think "propaganda" implies dishonesty, just advocacy.

Re: Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez's tweets translation from last night

#50

Post by JVIDEL »

coldtea wrote: post #18
krelian wrote: post #5

>This is a reference to the President's years-long struggle against preventative injunctions put in place by Argentine courts against her efforts to break up the big Argentine media trusts that are her strongest local political enemies. The preventative injunction are in place to put the measures on hold while the court decides if the made-to-order laws she comes up with twice a week are constitutional or not. For th…

> The preventative injunction are in place to put the measures on hold while the court decides if the made-to-order laws she comes up with twice a week are constitutional or not. We had a similar case in my country (a politician trying to break large media empires). Nothing worse than media conglomerates belonging to powerful corporations. They control politics AND public perception -- and the use them to funnel reso…

Except that she controls most of the media companies in the country right now, and the "monopolies" she is fighting are any newspapers, radio stations or TV channels that remain independent.

http://contenidos2.tn.com.ar/2012/12/09/medios2.jpg

The few purple dots in that map are the only remaining independent media companies in Argentina, all the other red ones are owned directly by Kirchner or indirectly by cronies and such, but subservient to her nonetheless.

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