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How Google is Killing Organic Search

blog.tutorspree.com

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Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#41

Post by dotmanish »

Afforess wrote: post #25
Ziomislaw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it might be because DDG is not Google. What works on google might not work the same in DDG. How long have you been using google? Probably long time. During this time you (unconsiously) learned how to ask questions "google way", now you need to learn to quack :p I also found that DDG sometimes (not very often) does not find what I am looking for. Mostly it is because I know nothing of the subject ie. using a…

> How long have you been using google? Probably long time. During this time you (unconsiously) learned how to ask questions "google way", now you need to learn to quack :p I understand this, but most of us are looking for an alternative to Google and not a completely different search engine.

Take a look at StartPage (http://startpage.com) - similar Privacy Policy.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#42

Post by wicknicks »

I'm not convinced with the arguments in this post. Auto Mechanic and Italian Food are both vague queries. Auto Mechanic could mean the definition of the term or places around you or even . And its not super hard to get rid of advertisements. If you really want better "organic" results, type in a better query -- "Auto Mechanic, Bay Area" or "Italian Food, New York".

I think its almost taken for granted that all search is interactive. If the first try is not precise, refine the query and try again. Its not correct to compare the Google of today with the "organic" search engines of a decade ago. The world, and the web have changed tremendously since. It can be argued that Google is trying to help the consumer by showing multi-faceted search for vague queries (which can potentially narrow search requirements) or provide cues about forming the next query -- and if a company can make money doing that, whats wrong in it?

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#43

Post by Afforess »

I wonder if there is interest in someone building a search site that uses the google custom search API to search. The CSE that Google provides does not include advertising or local results unless specifically requested. The only problem would be that it costs money for large volumes, so you might have to charge or use ads to pay for it.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#45

Post by netcan »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #22

The auction model for ads basically ruins internet searches in transactional categories. If you want to win at the "italian restaurant" search game, you have to bid the highest for the ad, which means you must have the highest margin. The best way to win is to open a restaurant with ridiculously high margins (over priced wine and cheap ingredients). Want the "cheapest car insurance"? Google is zero help. It sends you…

It's not quite like that.

What advertisers can afford to pay is margin X conversion rate. If people search for cheap socks and you have high margin socks, your conversion rate will be lower. In super competitive markets, the conversion rate is usually what makes one win. For something like insurance quotes, that probably means the one with a known brand, supporting advertising in tv & radio, etc.

The quality of the sites and the margins will probably be pretty similar among most players.

Where the dynamic you're describing happens is between product categories where you have a high margin per unit in one product category. Eg. If you want to sell a 'diy divorce kit with a $5 margin' you will have to outbid divorce lawyers who expect to earn thousands per client. The lawyers will drown everyone else out.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#46

Post by lmgftp »

This article seems to make a point of showcasing Zagat's rating in search above others, somehow indicating that Google is unfairly manipulating search results to it's own gain (as Zagat is Google, Inc. owned).

However, there's an important point here to be made, which has been said in numerous antitrust arguments against Google, and that is, "what if the product in No. 1, Google's, is in fact preferred by consumers and therefore is, to use language of the tutorspree authors 'organic'?".

It's an interesting question. I find much of the article interesting and of course the screen space dedicated to search is a hot topic, and Google's minimal style still remains in my favor, I just wanted to briefly object to the claim that somehow showing a non-ad Zagat page is "0%" (in the author's numbers) organic search.

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#47

Post by md224 »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #22

The auction model for ads basically ruins internet searches in transactional categories. If you want to win at the "italian restaurant" search game, you have to bid the highest for the ad, which means you must have the highest margin. The best way to win is to open a restaurant with ridiculously high margins (over priced wine and cheap ingredients). Want the "cheapest car insurance"? Google is zero help. It sends you…

I've been doing a lot of thinking about this topic recently, so it's nice to see a discussion on HN.

AdWords ad placement is determined by a mix of quality score and bid size. It's good that they're using quality of links to influence ad ranking, but here's what troubles me:

We're allowing money to influence information salience.

You could say this is how the world works, and I can't deny it. Money = power = eyeballs. But is this a good thing? Is this a dynamic we should be actively supporting? I honestly don't know.

Possible counterargument (because I can't help but play Devil's Advocate against myself):

Maybe the auction model is about determining the true "market price" of an ad position, in which case maybe this is a good thing?

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#48

Post by thecosas »

This is making the arguments based on only things "above the fold". There are plenty of people that have dispelled the myth that content NEEDS to be above the fold (1)(2).

That said, the implication with Google results is that the higher up on the page the link is, the more relevant that link is to a user's search. In my experience, very few people ever get to the second page of Google Search results. I'm all but certain that if we looked at heatmaps of clicks across all Google search pages, we would see this quite clearly. It's the entire reason that SEO has been an industry at all.

It gets more troubling with products like Google Cars (3)(4). It is literally another layer of PPC results specific to cars. I've got to think that other car retailers (including manufacturers) can't be too happy about this.

(1) http://iampaddy.com/lifebelow600/ (2) http://blog.kissmetrics.com/why-the-fold-is-a-myth/ (3) http://www.drivingsales.com/blogs/InvestigativeReporting/201... (4) http://searchengineland.com/google-tests-new-car-leads-produ...

Re: How Google is Killing Organic Search

#49

Post by sologoub »

Maybe this is a misconception on my part, but isn't local search listings and map info a form of organic search, just derived using different signals for authoritativeness and relevancy, of which proximity is only one variable?

If the above is true, Google is dedicating way more real estate to organic than ever. It's just a different form of organic.

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