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Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

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Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#41

Post by gohrt »

Alex3917 wrote: post #15
peregrine wrote: post #4

The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me. I've read this a couple times and I just want to go to this place, and meditate in a safe place. I don't really want to be preached to.

"The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me." I've done the same program at the same location, and it's really not cultish at all. Essentially you're not allowed to do anything that would distract you (or others) from meditating, and that's it. (E.g. you're not allowed to talk with others or eat junk food, as with most similar programs.) The teachings obviously come from a certain sect of…

> you're not allowed to talk with others

> the people are great

?

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#42

Post by MattBroudy »

benjamincburns wrote: post #6
iball wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(OP here) I feel you, but did you read the caveat to all the criticisms? http://news.rapgenius.com/1620770 On balance, it's pretty chill. Even the people who totally buy in and devote huge portions of their life to this organization are mostly just really into meditation (as opposed to, say, devotion to the organization or the man behind it). Though some of tactics are kind of strong-arm-y, the emphasis is always on…

Have you found a version of this that isn't at all preachy or "strong-arm-y?" I feel like a huge benefit to meditation is that it allows people to arrive at their own conclusions. But what I worry about is that the "guidance" you'd receive in situations like this is more guidance to a set of predetermined ideals or conclusions, rather than guidance into how best to find your own. It's incredibly hard to do anything s…

In my experience Vipassana is the version that isn't "strong-arm-y". Your anecdote actually does a good job of illustrating the difference between Vipassana and many other forms of meditation contemporary and historical.

Here is a synopsis of a story that is told on retreat:

A man goes to see the Buddha and says, "Oh, Buddha I have heard that you are an all knowing sage, I have traveled far to see you. In my village the holy men can't seem to come to an agreement. Some say that after we die we are reborn here or in another realm, they believe that the soul is eternal. Others believe that there is no soul, and that after we die there is nothing. Can you please put this issue to rest, we have agreed that whatever you tell us is the truth and we will stop our ceaseless argument."

The Buddha smiling responded gently,

"Endless are the arguments of the mystics. Do you see the leaves in the forest? They represent the sum total of my knowledge."

The Buddha paused and picked up a handful of leaves from the forest floor.

"These leaves... They represent the knowledge that is relevant to the cessation of suffering in this lifetime. This is the knowledge I teach."

The Buddha as described in Theravada Buddhism was not particularly interested in specific beliefs but rather in providing practices that help humans to suffer less.

The Buddha spent a lot of time criticizing the establishment, and was distrusting of practices that left people with unprovable conclusions (i.e. the knowledge that, "when we die, our energy lives on.")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmajala_Sutta_%28Theravada%2...

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#43

Post by kemiller »

hosh wrote: post #31
kemiller wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you there. OP's experience is startlingly similar to mine. I hated the chanting, the obvious eastern cultural bias (an overzealous assistant told me not to point my feet at the TV while GoenkaHeadroom was talking), the vague conservative morality, the claims to nonsectarianness while still referencing reincarnation, etc. But the technique really works, and the gestalt of their teaching method does work, and…

- There are good reasons for the feet thing, but ultimately ... someone who has great equinmaity won't be bothered much by your feet pointing at him, or not pointing at him, your zealous worship, your respect, your lack of respect, or your disrespect. So someone who gets upset over that, well, if the teacher remains equanimous, that means the one who is thrashing is the student. - The overzealous assistant has his ow…

I'm curious what the "good reasons" for the foot thing are that aren't culturally embedded. If it were a live guru up there, I can kind of see it, but not the TV.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#45

Post by chockablock »

gohrt wrote: post #41
Alex3917 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me." I've done the same program at the same location, and it's really not cultish at all. Essentially you're not allowed to do anything that would distract you (or others) from meditating, and that's it. (E.g. you're not allowed to talk with others or eat junk food, as with most similar programs.) The teachings obviously come from a certain sect of…

> you're not allowed to talk with others > the people are great ?

:]

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#47

Post by fernly »

igmor wrote: post #46

Is there a way to get similar introduction to meditation without spending 10 days on it in a wild and listening to all that chanting? Some kind of good old western rational approach to it.

Find a local Buddhist meditation group. They'll have at least weekly "sittings", often more frequently. Just recently this searchable list of north american sanghas went up:

http://buddhistinsightnetwork.org/sanghas

If you are in the SF Bay Area, the Insight Meditation Center in Redwood City is the home for Gil Fronsdahl, cited above.

http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#48

Post by gverri »

rdl wrote: post #2

I have always been suspicious of those new age/meditation/etc. resorts. This really shows off the ability to use the Rap Genius platform to annotate writing; I wish there were something like Goedel Escher Bach Genius.

Lol. You haven't even read the link.

Vipassana meditation is not a resort. You can't even speak with other people. It's just a 10 day, hardcore meditation training.

Plz, don't be a moron. At least look at the facts: http://scholar.google.com.br/scholar?hl=pt-BR&q=meditation&b...

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#49

Post by gverri »

benjamincburns wrote: post #26
Alex3917 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"do you believe that this is a totally natural convergence of thought, or is it possible that this is the progression of thought that this particular set of guidance will lead you toward?" Happy to answer, but I'm not sure I understand the question -- could you rephrase?

Sorry, I should have quoted more. > Yes, Goenka does make some counterintuitive claims about the underlying nature of the universe, but the basis for those claims are phenomenological experiences that people have had while meditating; they come from the same set of experiences that you yourself will have if you stick with it. To rephrase the question - do you think that these experiences are convergent, in that anyon…

One of these 'counterintuitive claims' is about resurrection. I don't want to give you 'spoilers', but one thing they 'preach' is that Vipassana is a way to get out of the cycle of endless 'rebirth'.

I'm an Atheist myself. And on the 7/8th day I had what I would call a strange dream. I was practicing Vipassana on the bed as I could not get to sleep. Suddenly I've fallen asleep and dreamt of being someone else on a distant past. After some time I woke up not knowing where I was and what was happening.

For anyone 'spiritual' enough that would be a 'past life experience'. But the thing is. I don't know why, but while there, every dream seems a lot more "real".

I think it has something to do with all the silence involved. You can't speak, and the center itself is very quiet (far from any urban center).

On the 11th day (when you are allowed to talk with other students) I've found out that it was very common indeed.

So I think, yes, with enough practice every one will have similar experiences. But these experiences will mean different things for different people.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#50

Post by gverri »

kemiller wrote: post #43
hosh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- There are good reasons for the feet thing, but ultimately ... someone who has great equinmaity won't be bothered much by your feet pointing at him, or not pointing at him, your zealous worship, your respect, your lack of respect, or your disrespect. So someone who gets upset over that, well, if the teacher remains equanimous, that means the one who is thrashing is the student. - The overzealous assistant has his ow…

I'm curious what the "good reasons" for the foot thing are that aren't culturally embedded. If it were a live guru up there, I can kind of see it, but not the TV.

There no 'good reason'. It's just a cultural bias.
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