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GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

guardian.co.uk

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Re: GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

#41

Post by tzs »

notTptacek wrote: post #35
xtrumanx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm confused as to how anyone could have believed that one of the 5 largest signals intelligence agencies in the world could not have been tapping Internet backbone cables. I feel bad for conspiracy theorists. Had they made the same statement a month ago, they would have been called tin-foil hat wearing nuts and now people say things like the above so casually and pretend like it was obvious all along. I wouldn't b…

If you've been following recent threads, there should be no confusion as to the fact that Tptacek consistently supports an establishment view. He nit-picks small details to steer conversation away from the big picture. Any notion of abuse, scandal or surprise is routinely dismissed. People who disagree are brushed off as hysterical or conspiracy theorists.

I'm curious why you couldn't make the same point using your regular HN account. What the need for a novelty account just to disagree with one person?

Re: GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

#42

Post by o0-0o »

From the article, "(Metadata describes basic information on who has been contacting whom, without detailing the content.)".

Could someone let the journalists know what metadata really is? I mean, come on. Metadata is a concise, highly valued description of the data, also including identifying information. In other words, keywords!

For this comment, the keywords (metadata) might be:

Journalists Metadata Meta Data Article

Re: GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

#43

Post by o0-0o »

teawithcarl wrote: post #32

This is what I thought all along. A) Access is MUCH broader than just tapping Google, FB, MSFT, etc. Access is at the far broader level of telecommunication cables. Encryption can be broken later, with specialty FPGA chips. B) More importantly, with the US taking "everything foreign" and with GCHQ (also) taking "everything foreign" ... the Venn set of these two closely associated govt spying operations means they get…

Important to extend your Venn diagram to the "Five Eyes". Canada, US, UK, Australia, and New Zealand. A much wider intersection is possible in that context.

Re: GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

#44

Post by DanBC »

aspensmonster wrote: post #33
tjaerv wrote: post #7

"This was done under secret agreements with commercial companies, described in one document as 'intercept partners'. […] some companies have been paid for the cost of their co-operation and GCHQ went to great lengths to keep their names secret. They were assigned 'sensitive relationship teams' and staff were urged in one internal guidance paper to disguise the origin of 'special source' material in their reports for…

I see no list of company names in this article by The Guardian. I believe the British people --or anyone that does business with them (edit: "them" as in the companies that have assisted the GCHQ) in any way, really-- would be very interested in hearing some names right about now.

The companies are obvious.

BT is one.

Re: GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

#45

Post by kryten »

Phlarp wrote: post #38
kryten wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most government employees with top secret clearance (DV in the UK) like I was are scared of the consequences of breaking the rules. When someone puts their life on the line and opens their mouth, there is enough attention on the matter for other people to come forward safely. If the attention is not there, people disappear (without trial in some cases) and end up rotting in jail somewhere.

Comments like this are really telling of how far down that slippery slope we already are. Troubling.

It's always been like it. It is just publicised now thanks to free communication over the Internet.

Re: GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

#46

Post by inthewind »

o0-0o wrote: post #42

From the article, "(Metadata describes basic information on who has been contacting whom, without detailing the content.)". Could someone let the journalists know what metadata really is? I mean, come on. Metadata is a concise, highly valued description of the data, also including identifying information. In other words, keywords! For this comment, the keywords (metadata) might be: Journalists Metadata Meta Data Arti…

I think your definition of meta-data is too narrow. It's not just keywords.

Excuse me if I state the obvious, but with something like a web page access, the meta data will be in part: your internet address, what time you accessed it, the referring url etc. A phone call's meta data could include the length of the call, which phone the call was made on, which mast was used etc.

Meta data is additional data about the data isn't it?

One assumes that you could then make telling deductions from that meta data. Like a persons movements (acquired from phone, financial and internet records). You can also draw a lot about their character: their interests, their political views, their cicles etc.

The meta data is very revealing in itself.

Re: GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

#49

Post by [deleted] »

Phlarp wrote: post #30
xtrumanx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm confused as to how anyone could have believed that one of the 5 largest signals intelligence agencies in the world could not have been tapping Internet backbone cables. I feel bad for conspiracy theorists. Had they made the same statement a month ago, they would have been called tin-foil hat wearing nuts and now people say things like the above so casually and pretend like it was obvious all along. I wouldn't b…

So much this. People on this forum have consistently presented very compelling arguments that they don't have SSL keys and couldn't retroactively decrypt collected traffic even if they did. Unsettling then that people I generally considered trustworthy in the crypto community (say, Matt Blaze) previously were adamant to claim that large scale duplication and retention of backbone traffic was not only highly unlikely…

[deleted]

Re: GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

#50

Post by coldtea »

Phlarp wrote: post #30
xtrumanx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm confused as to how anyone could have believed that one of the 5 largest signals intelligence agencies in the world could not have been tapping Internet backbone cables. I feel bad for conspiracy theorists. Had they made the same statement a month ago, they would have been called tin-foil hat wearing nuts and now people say things like the above so casually and pretend like it was obvious all along. I wouldn't b…

So much this. People on this forum have consistently presented very compelling arguments that they don't have SSL keys and couldn't retroactively decrypt collected traffic even if they did. Unsettling then that people I generally considered trustworthy in the crypto community (say, Matt Blaze) previously were adamant to claim that large scale duplication and retention of backbone traffic was not only highly unlikely…

Just because someone is an expert in the field, doesn't mean what he says is to be trusted. Some are just supporting the status quo and the "government wisdom". Some might even be paid to say what they say or be linked by contracts to such stuff.
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