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Yandex Mail

mail.yandex.com

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Re: Yandex Mail

#41

Post by guelo »

tptacek wrote: post #27
smnrchrds wrote: post #18

I actually think Yandex is a good alternative. Assume that all countries have similar projects like PRISM. Which one would you rather have: your country spying on you or a foreign country? If your country is spying on you, it can use the data it gathers against you in a court, etc. If it's a foreign country, what could they possibly do?

Technically, the FISA law being used by the NSA to capture phone records doesn't generate evidence that is easily used in court. If you're not a legitimate foreign target, you can suppress evidence that originates from FISA, and the NSA is obligated to destroy evidence it inadvertently collects on citizens.

It is easy for them to use info against you outside of the courts in all sorts of ways, from blacklisting to blackmail. Or if you really piss them off the government can just throw you in jail and refuse to prosecute you, like the guys in Gitmo.

Re: Yandex Mail

#42

Post by CapitalistCartr »

gyardley wrote: post #39
smnrchrds wrote: post #18

I actually think Yandex is a good alternative. Assume that all countries have similar projects like PRISM. Which one would you rather have: your country spying on you or a foreign country? If your country is spying on you, it can use the data it gathers against you in a court, etc. If it's a foreign country, what could they possibly do?

Use the information against your own country and the people in it, which likely includes the people you're closest to? Since you're not a citizen of that country, use the information in your email in far less scrupulous ways? Perhaps they could blackmail you into being a foreign intelligence asset. Perhaps a corrupt employee could slip your information to a criminal organization who will then steal your identity. All…

Seriously? Whatever you do for a living, it ain't what most of us do. The fact is, almost all of us ARE boring to foreign governments. Almost all foreign governments WILL treat our correspondences better because of this. If I were designing fighter jets, it'd be different, but I'm making luxury yachts. Russia doesn't care. In fact, a few rich Russians own some of our boats.

Re: Yandex Mail

#43

Post by CapitalistCartr »

tptacek wrote: post #35
mschuster91 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually believe what you're writing? Seriously, the NSA or any other govt agency would be stupid to delete data and I highly doubt that the "checks and balances" measures actually care about doing their job. If they had done so then the leak would not have been necessary.

Yes, I actually believe what I'm writing. If you doubt any of the checks and balances work, what's there to discuss? The only conclusion I see you as being able to come to is that we'd have to eliminate all foreign signals intelligence.

Or, hey, we could restore the pre9-11 checks and balances. Just a thought. Maybe we could demand our government not use every small threat to our country as an excuse to move the goalposts, the Overton Window. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Re: Yandex Mail

#44

Post by tptacek »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #43
tptacek wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I actually believe what I'm writing. If you doubt any of the checks and balances work, what's there to discuss? The only conclusion I see you as being able to come to is that we'd have to eliminate all foreign signals intelligence.

Or, hey, we could restore the pre9-11 checks and balances. Just a thought. Maybe we could demand our government not use every small threat to our country as an excuse to move the goalposts, the Overton Window. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

Why are the pre-9/11 checks more trustworthy than the post-9/11 checks?

Re: Yandex Mail

#45

Post by ck2 »

buster wrote: post #38
ck2 wrote: post #36

Didn't east germany have warehouses of piles of paper of records of everyone spying on each other? It bothers me as a progressive that many liberals don't see how we are a hop, skip and jump away from that mentality. From birth to death there is going to be a record of your child's phone calls, friends, dates, etc. It will never be deleted.

Aye, and we're still at it deciphering shreddered papers :) http://www.goethe.de/ges/pok/ddg/en2491168.htm

This quote from that article gives me chills because it's what they are saying now:

Erich Mielke's mania for information: the long-time head of the Stasi, Mielke believed that "you have to know everything in order to be completely safe"

Re: Yandex Mail

#46

Post by tptacek »

guelo wrote: post #41
tptacek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, the FISA law being used by the NSA to capture phone records doesn't generate evidence that is easily used in court. If you're not a legitimate foreign target, you can suppress evidence that originates from FISA, and the NSA is obligated to destroy evidence it inadvertently collects on citizens.

It is easy for them to use info against you outside of the courts in all sorts of ways, from blacklisting to blackmail. Or if you really piss them off the government can just throw you in jail and refuse to prosecute you, like the guys in Gitmo.

If you think the government is going to disappear you to Guantanamo, what's there to discuss at all? You clearly believe the government is bound by no laws at all.

Re: Yandex Mail

#47

Post by rdtsc »

jdminhbg wrote: post #5
Ihmahr wrote: post #2

I don't think this would be a crazy thing to do. Russia doesn't drone 'suspected' terrorists based on their meta data.

Is this a really subtle joke...? The FSB will very definitely kill you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Anna_Politkovs...

Somehow that is better. It gets people who are involved in it to get their hands bloody. That is necessary when taking lives. It should be damaging to ones psyche and it should be difficult and stressful to kill. It should not be a push of a button. Go blow up kids herding goats all day, then pick up your own kids for soccer practice in Langley at night, that's what we are up to now.

Re: Yandex Mail

#48

Post by guelo »

tptacek wrote: post #46
guelo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy for them to use info against you outside of the courts in all sorts of ways, from blacklisting to blackmail. Or if you really piss them off the government can just throw you in jail and refuse to prosecute you, like the guys in Gitmo.

If you think the government is going to disappear you to Guantanamo, what's there to discuss at all? You clearly believe the government is bound by no laws at all.

Maybe that was a bit of an overstatement on my part unless you're a middle eastener. But they've proven over and over that they'll throw out the laws when it inconveniences them.

Re: Yandex Mail

#49

Post by CapitalistCartr »

CapitalistCartr wrote: post #43
tptacek wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I actually believe what I'm writing. If you doubt any of the checks and balances work, what's there to discuss? The only conclusion I see you as being able to come to is that we'd have to eliminate all foreign signals intelligence.

Or, hey, we could restore the pre9-11 checks and balances. Just a thought. Maybe we could demand our government not use every small threat to our country as an excuse to move the goalposts, the Overton Window. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

tptacek, I can't reply to you directly. The checks haven't changed, the obeying part has. The executive branch of our government needs to return to following them. How to enforce that on the branch tasked with enforcement it the problem. The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence seems to lack a backbone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Permanent_S...

Re: Yandex Mail

#50

Post by jjoonathan »

tptacek wrote: post #27
smnrchrds wrote: post #18

I actually think Yandex is a good alternative. Assume that all countries have similar projects like PRISM. Which one would you rather have: your country spying on you or a foreign country? If your country is spying on you, it can use the data it gathers against you in a court, etc. If it's a foreign country, what could they possibly do?

Technically, the FISA law being used by the NSA to capture phone records doesn't generate evidence that is easily used in court. If you're not a legitimate foreign target, you can suppress evidence that originates from FISA, and the NSA is obligated to destroy evidence it inadvertently collects on citizens.

As you say, this is a technicality. Everyone is guilty under a microscope, and the FISA dragnet can provide authorities with a license to use a microscope on you. That's quite enough to be scared about.
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