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ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

kickstarter.com

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Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm at the launch event and helped put this project together. They're not doing this for the Kickstarter money. Even though they're fundraising for the project, they're already putting in more than they could ever hope to raise on Kickstarter. This project is adjacent to their core mission of Asteroid Mining, this is to prove interest that the public is interested in this sort of project, and to give the…

Can you give us a rough sense of scale of how the $1 million from the KickStarter compares to the other costs required to bring to completion 1) everything promised in the KickStarter, and 2) their first satellite in space capable of scoping out NEOs?

The $1M isn't going toward the cost of the satellite - they're already building those for their primary mission.

This is to pay for the launch of an extra one, that has little to do with their core mission of asteroid prospecting, and everything to do with inspiring and educating.

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#42
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The compelling advantage is that they're making it available to the public to use.

But what I'm saying is the public can just get a 200mm telescope on the ground themselves. No need to launch it into space.

I live in Portland, Oregon. Every time we wanted to use a telescope to see some planetary wonder it has been cloudy. Hard to keep my kids excited about space without seeing much of it :)

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#43
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what I'm saying is the public can just get a 200mm telescope on the ground themselves. No need to launch it into space.

I live in Portland, Oregon. Every time we wanted to use a telescope to see some planetary wonder it has been cloudy. Hard to keep my kids excited about space without seeing much of it :)

You can rent time on a telescope in another hemisphere and timezone right now, over the Internet.

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#44
post #28

could some 100s of those small telescopes be used with interferometry to get a better picture?

Optical band sensors are not fast and low-noise enough, by several orders of magnitude, to do the sort of digital interferometry available with radio telescopes. Optical interferometers so far require optical correlators. This geometric rather than data-analytical approach mandates knowing and controlling the delay distances between the beams of light down to the nanometer. Combined with adaptive optics, this is some of the highest resolution imagery we can produce; But it is extremely limited because of the practical difficulties of these hardware concerns, even in a situation where there is a massive underground lab connecting the telescopes like at the VLT. Satellites floating in free space on opposite sites of the Earth affected by differential atmospheric drag, geomagnetic and heliomagnetic effects, and even relativistic differences would present what appears to be an intractable problem for this technology.

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're pushing the "picture in space" as a sort of hook to gather public interest. Large scale public interest in their projects has the potential to bring in larger funding from entities that might otherwise not be interested. Personally I think this is an excellent idea. The picture in space is a great little incentive to get people to take a closer look at the project. Of course, there is the risk of fail…

they are suppose to be in asteroid mining business, that they said could bring trillions of dollars in profits. Why do they care about the public? There is something fishy going on here :)

Why wouldn't they care about the public? The local copper mining operation often buys advertising to boost its own public image; why not an asteroid mining operation?

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think that they will be able to upload a picture, display it on a LCD, snap picture of their setup and send it back to Earth and do it hundred of times with a prototype full of untested tech?

Yes. a) The vast majority of satellites are "prototypes." They're built a few at a time, extensively tested, then launched. In the case of satellite frameworks like Cubesat, they're open source and tested every time someone launches one. b) This is not untested tech, at all. Cubesats have been using consumer technology in satellites extensively, both by startups, hobbyists, and academia (doing advanced stuff like orb…

Cubesats don't use LCDs. mainly because LCD won't work under low temp conditions, so that's problem number one. Problem number two - we don't know how Arkyd will be propelled. They are selling possibility to point the telescope anywhere but what about changing it's direction? How many maneuvers they can do with limited amount of propellant on board? There is more questions, but really what's the point?

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#47
post #44
post #28

could some 100s of those small telescopes be used with interferometry to get a better picture?

Optical band sensors are not fast and low-noise enough, by several orders of magnitude, to do the sort of digital interferometry available with radio telescopes. Optical interferometers so far require optical correlators. This geometric rather than data-analytical approach mandates knowing and controlling the delay distances between the beams of light down to the nanometer. Combined with adaptive optics, this is some…

What about some kind of periodical signal with known timing and fase that could be used to calibrate and syncronise the signals at post processing? Something like a film clapping board, but in space.

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#48
post #47
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optical band sensors are not fast and low-noise enough, by several orders of magnitude, to do the sort of digital interferometry available with radio telescopes. Optical interferometers so far require optical correlators. This geometric rather than data-analytical approach mandates knowing and controlling the delay distances between the beams of light down to the nanometer. Combined with adaptive optics, this is some…

What about some kind of periodical signal with known timing and fase that could be used to calibrate and syncronise the signals at post processing? Something like a film clapping board, but in space.

Several orders of magnitude too slow sensors to discern that signal, again; to say nothing of actually controlling the spacecraft's distance. The periodical signals you mention would be just fine for discerning the position of radio interferometry nodes because it's a lot less of a technical challenge and because we can afford to do a few days of computational work for a given millisecond of data, but not at the nanometer & femtosecond scale of precision in real time at low latency.

The difference between radio and optical-infrared regions of the EM spectrum is not just about what the human eye can see, it's a fundamental difference in how we measure - the former allows us to directly sense the shape of the EM waves as they come in, while the latter is much higher resolution, but forces us to indirectly make conjectures based upon how much energy was deposited onto some specialized sensor in a macro-scale time period.

Here's what Wikipedia says about the boundary region between the two bands, which is poorly studied because neither paradigm works well: "Terahertz radiation occupies a middle ground between microwaves and infrared light waves, and technology for generating and manipulating it is in its infancy, and is a subject of active research. It represents the region in the electromagnetic spectrum that the frequency of electromagnetic radiation becomes too high to be measured by directly counting cycles using electronic counters, and must be measured by the proxy properties of wavelength and energy. Similarly, in this frequency range the generation and modulation of coherent electromagnetic signals ceases to be possible by the conventional electronic devices used to generate radio waves and microwaves, and requires new devices and techniques."

The type of precision required here is well out of the reach of normal engineering, it requires specialized tools like diffraction interference wavefront sensors just to make sure the shape of the mirror is precise enough. That we've gotten it working at all with multi-focal optical systems (for very bright stars, at least) is a bit of a miracle, and some of the techniques required certainly involve the type of signal you're talking about just to get it operating in the lab. Measuring distance with this kind of resolution is just not something we have to do often, especially for very large distances.

The next step in optical interferometry is certainly not this kind of solution, it's building a space interferometer with a normal real-time optical correlator, as a single structural satellite, 2 mirrors on opposite ends of an enclosed truss. A project modeled on that principle with 2x 50cm mirrors has been a bridge too far for us, delayed and cancelled with NASA budget cuts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Interferometry_Mission

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#49
post #48
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about some kind of periodical signal with known timing and fase that could be used to calibrate and syncronise the signals at post processing? Something like a film clapping board, but in space.

Several orders of magnitude too slow sensors to discern that signal, again; to say nothing of actually controlling the spacecraft's distance. The periodical signals you mention would be just fine for discerning the position of radio interferometry nodes because it's a lot less of a technical challenge and because we can afford to do a few days of computational work for a given millisecond of data, but not at the nano…

Amazing reply, thank you very much! This is an awesome physics unexplored field (maybe not unexplored, but yet with lots of stuff to learn) How cool would be a kind of antenna that is able perform the same function as a mirror but in an electronic way and not in a visual one.

Re: ARKYD: A Space Telescope for Everyone

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. a) The vast majority of satellites are "prototypes." They're built a few at a time, extensively tested, then launched. In the case of satellite frameworks like Cubesat, they're open source and tested every time someone launches one. b) This is not untested tech, at all. Cubesats have been using consumer technology in satellites extensively, both by startups, hobbyists, and academia (doing advanced stuff like orb…

Cubesats don't use LCDs. mainly because LCD won't work under low temp conditions, so that's problem number one. Problem number two - we don't know how Arkyd will be propelled. They are selling possibility to point the telescope anywhere but what about changing it's direction? How many maneuvers they can do with limited amount of propellant on board? There is more questions, but really what's the point?

LCD temperature specs are for ATP, where heat transfer functions very differently from vacuum. With radiation being the only way energy enters or leaves the satellite's thermal system, all the satellite has to do is heat the LCD faster than it is radiating heat. This is the case for most instrumentation on satellites and thermal is one of the most important and well understood systems.

Colloid thrusters (or other ionic propulsion), or even a chemical hybergolic propellant (hydrazine + oxygen for example) would work perfectly for propulsion. This is a solved problem, so much so that there are off the shelf modules for cubesat propulsion.

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