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Where Is .Net Headed?

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Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#41

Post by yareally »

kmm wrote: post #23
untog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think Mono is a viable alternative to the .NET platform, you don't understand why people choose .NET. Don't get me wrong, Mono is awesome. But it's not about to be adopted by Fortune 500 companies across the world.

To someone with very little understanding of these technologies, could you give a quick word on what the problem is with Mono? Are we talking about performance, completeness, support or something else?

No Windows Presentation Foundation support is one thing some would miss. Seriously though, there's a lot of clients out there that would probably not miss the Microsoft branding if they got over the .net label missing. Perhaps not larger enterprise clients that rely on specific MS tools and support, but a lot of smaller businesses could leave it just fine that use it for things like asp.net and switch to apache + mono.

To be fair though, the parent I was replying to did not define in what capacity .net would be replaced and how and taking replies as a black and white answer to a gray area question is a bit factitious (this part was not meant as a directly reply to the parent of this reply).

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#42

Post by guiomie »

smacktoward wrote: post #29
rbanffy wrote: post #21

I had to stop at the "1. The success of Windows Azure" part. Will get back to the article as soon as I stop laughing...

Laugh if you want to, but the point is pretty serious. Azure supposedly racked up more than $1 billion in revenue in 2012 ( http://www.zdnet.com/windows-azure-joins-microsofts-billion-... ). Amazon's AWS, on the other hand, is estimated to have brought in between $1.5 and $2 billion ( http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-deals/2013-03-07-what-if-amazon... , http://www.informationweek.com/cloud-computing/infrastructur... ) du…

Would it be a fair assumption to say revenues from Azure are primarly from big entreprise companies (ex fortune 500) amd that amazon is more focused around smaller companies?

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#43

Post by sk5t »

ilaksh wrote: post #38
ComputerGuru wrote: post #33

Regardless of where .NET is headed, C# the language (which is an entirely separate beast) has, in my humble opinion, become the most damn awesome all-around language. It's got all the awesome features most of which are very elegantly implemented and accessible in a very streamlined fashion. Obviously if you hate C-syntax, C# isn't going to win any brownie points, but in terms of sheer power and flexibility, C# 5.0 st…

Start with the name, ".NET". What were they referring to when they chose that name very carefully? They were referring to the web. C# 5.0? Take a look at this example code from the MSDN blog which is "showing off" the new features of C# 5.0. (It was formatted this way with no indentation on the blog). This example, not by coincidence, demonstrates how .NET interfaces with the web. private async void btnTest_Click(obj…

That's not a fantastic code sample, but its purpose is to show off the async / await keyword. There's no point in criticizing it for not being a web app... I do wish, however, that MSDN blogs put more focus on good, idiomatic C#, formatted properly, but they so often come up short, only doing one thing adequately while failing at all others.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#44

Post by pantaloons »

ilaksh wrote: post #38
ComputerGuru wrote: post #33

Regardless of where .NET is headed, C# the language (which is an entirely separate beast) has, in my humble opinion, become the most damn awesome all-around language. It's got all the awesome features most of which are very elegantly implemented and accessible in a very streamlined fashion. Obviously if you hate C-syntax, C# isn't going to win any brownie points, but in terms of sheer power and flexibility, C# 5.0 st…

Start with the name, ".NET". What were they referring to when they chose that name very carefully? They were referring to the web. C# 5.0? Take a look at this example code from the MSDN blog which is "showing off" the new features of C# 5.0. (It was formatted this way with no indentation on the blog). This example, not by coincidence, demonstrates how .NET interfaces with the web. private async void btnTest_Click(obj…

For one, you're criticizing a web API here and not the C# language-- and you've failed to even do that convincingly since it's an intentionally verbose example using an outdated API.

res.Text = (await new HtppClient().GetStringAsync(url.Text)).Length.ToString();

(Disclaimer: I work at MS.)

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#45

Post by jussij »

ilaksh wrote: post #26
cooldeal wrote: post #10

Great, another .NET is dying post voted up on HN. Didn't we have one of those just this morning? Meanwhile, in the real world, Microsoft posted these earnings: "Server & Tools business reported $5.04 billion of revenue, up 11% from last year" Inspite of competing products like Linux, Apache, Eclipse, Ruby, Java being given away for free, people are willing to pay for Windows Server, Visual Studio and IIS. Does anyone…

Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling. And I think that is one of the main reasons that many .NET developers who are a little bit familiar with open source and non-Microsoft technologies are starting to wonder if its worthwhile paying all of that money to have Microsoft make all of those architectural decisions for them. Just start w…

> Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling.

I don't buy that for a minute.

The Windows Server division is one of the fastest growing divisions inside of Microsoft.

From their last Q3FY13 report revenue from server and tools grew 11% driven by SQL server and Windows Server growth.

Based on those figures business is scrambling to buy into the Microsoft toolchain, not trying to leave.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#46

Post by ghuntley »

Erm. .NET is alive and well, especially on the game and mobile phone development front

Xamarin (the monodevs) are doing some really interesting stuff:

http://xamarin.com/evolve/2013

Frameworks such as MvvmCross allow you to target iOS, Android, Windows 8 Mobile, Windows 8 Store, WinRT, WPF all using the same codebase using the MVVM Pattern. Write your code business logic in a PCL and share it across all platforms, i.e. 80% code re-use on mobile, write your UI for each platform and link against your shared core business logic PCL.

https://github.com/slodge/MvvmCross

Oh, you can do all of the above, program for all those platforms (iOS included) in Visual Studio with either C# or F# using async/await and linq.

Disclaimer: I went to #evolve, if you use .NET and didn't go then sorry to say you missed out ;-)

Personal highlights from the conference include:

- C# async/await on iOS, Android announced and available in the beta update channel.

- Xamarin acquires Calaba.sh (lesspainful), announces the future of automated mobile phone testing: http://xamarin.com/evolve/2013#session-xcjpj20d6s

- 80% code reuse case study: http://xamarin.com/evolve/2013#session-shy07zqsoz

- Behind the scenes with the award winning game Bastion (monogame): http://xamarin.com/evolve/2013#session-mazw2c15qr

- (Scott Hanselman) How C# Saved my Marriage, Enhanced my Career and Made Me an Inch Taller: http://xamarin.com/evolve/2013#session-umfpnw90c9

- (Josh Collins - @GlobalMoxie) Buttons are a hack: can't wait for vid to be uploaded...

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#47

Post by sk5t »

untog wrote: post #37
terrble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> huge corporate projects don't use it Incorrect assumption (source: developer at huge corporation on huge projects)

OK, most huge corporate projects don't use it. Point is, there was no huge shift to MVC after it was released. A ton of web projects are still made using WebForms and will continue to be. MVC will continue to be a minority framework.

In my experience, MVC has already become extremely popular among medium-sized orgs with at least somewhat ambitious developers. Very large orgs with rosters of stuck-in-time developers who really love WebForms and custom control libraries, and fear or hate jQuery, well... they're not going to change until MSFT officially proclaims that WebForms are for chumps. Even though they are chumps, that will spur them to change.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#48

Post by charlieflowers »

untog wrote: post #37
terrble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> huge corporate projects don't use it Incorrect assumption (source: developer at huge corporation on huge projects)

OK, most huge corporate projects don't use it. Point is, there was no huge shift to MVC after it was released. A ton of web projects are still made using WebForms and will continue to be. MVC will continue to be a minority framework.

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's true. I have come across a lot more ASP.NET MVC + JavaScript jobs than I have WebForms the past couple of years.

I think the shift has quietly occurred because everyone wants at least a little AJAX, and everyone wants jQuery, and once you've thrown those in the mix, who wants to do that using WebForms?

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#49

Post by charlieflowers »

smacktoward wrote: post #29
rbanffy wrote: post #21

I had to stop at the "1. The success of Windows Azure" part. Will get back to the article as soon as I stop laughing...

Laugh if you want to, but the point is pretty serious. Azure supposedly racked up more than $1 billion in revenue in 2012 ( http://www.zdnet.com/windows-azure-joins-microsofts-billion-... ). Amazon's AWS, on the other hand, is estimated to have brought in between $1.5 and $2 billion ( http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-deals/2013-03-07-what-if-amazon... , http://www.informationweek.com/cloud-computing/infrastructur... ) du…

I heard this a couple of weeks ago (on Hacker News), and I was SHOCKED!

I have worked for years as a .Net consultant, and I had no idea Azure had grown this quickly. A couple of years ago, I thought their entire set of literature was counter-intuitive, and I quit paying attention to them.

How on Earth did they grow to be in AWS's league so quickly? Surely just getting the "default Microsoft business" wasn't enough to put them at $1 billion ??

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#50

Post by cm127 »

untog wrote: post #37
terrble wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> huge corporate projects don't use it Incorrect assumption (source: developer at huge corporation on huge projects)

OK, most huge corporate projects don't use it. Point is, there was no huge shift to MVC after it was released. A ton of web projects are still made using WebForms and will continue to be. MVC will continue to be a minority framework.

> Point is, there was no huge shift to MVC after it was released.

Why would you assume that if they can't move to a new architecture, they'll move to a new language and OS?

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