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“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

news.consumerreports.org

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Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#41

Post by enraged_camel »

jfb wrote: post #39
moconnor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The classic "Innovator's Dilemma" attempts to address this - the idea here would be that electric cars are disruptive technology, one which otherwise good management practices more or less prevent market encumbents successfully exploiting. Read the book, I highly recommend it if you're interested by these kinds of questions!

But electric cars aren't a disruptive technology. The only thing that might qualify as disruptive about Tesla is their direct to customer sales model, and I have a hard time seeing how they'll get around the entrenched interests there. The Model S is by all accounts an excellent car, and I want one, but I am bearish on Tesla the company.

>>But electric cars aren't a disruptive technology.

Of course they are. They work completely differently from ICE cars and even hybrids to solve the same problem (transportation). That's the definition of a disruptive technology.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#42

Post by pyre »

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

There's something to be said about a driven leader pursuing a vision. The other good example would be Apple + Steve Jobs.

For example, I know that with Ford Motor Company, as an example, the Ford family has a heavy hand in the top-level management (i.e. previous CEOs have been kicked out 'unofficially' because they didn't follow what the Ford family wanted or didn't live up to their expectations). That kind of stuff puts a drag on innovation.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#45

Post by slantyyz »

technoslut wrote: post #5
aviswanathan wrote: post #3

I can attest to this. Initially, I was extremely skeptical that the Tesla was anything great (electric cars haven't been the highlight of the automotive industry despite repeated attempts by established manufacturers). A few weeks ago, however, I had the chance to drive a family friend's Tesla and I was stunned. The Model S seems like a car from the future. Forget the fact that it's completely electric and charges vi…

After test driving a Tesla, I agree with much of what you said and one is the engine noise. I prefer sports cars and especially the sound of a V8/12. To me it's better than listening to music. I do understand that those purchasing a luxury vehicle have different expectations. Those in sedans appreciate cabin silence more than others.

>> I prefer sports cars and especially the sound of a V8/12.

Isn't this the reason why Ferrari is saying they have no interest in producing an electric car?

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#46

Post by bitwize »

maratd wrote: post #19
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

> Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills. No company is an island onto itself. Companies have partners, large clients, relationships, etc. Bottom line? To keep existing product lines healthy, you must pay respect to your loyalties. You start seeing the…

It's easy for anyone to build and sell Linux PCs out of their home. Don't expect Dell or HP to do it, outside of limited-market "test releases".

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#47

Post by newbie12 »

maratd wrote: post #19
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

> Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? In an established firm, existing product lines pay the bills. No company is an island onto itself. Companies have partners, large clients, relationships, etc. Bottom line? To keep existing product lines healthy, you must pay respect to your loyalties. You start seeing the…

Plus no autoworkers' union, and no inefficient dealer network.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#48

Post by jfb »

codex wrote: post #28
pyre wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?

It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling ZEV credits. Without these they would not be profitable. So they have more money to apply to the fit and finish of the car than luxury manufacturers which don't make an electric. It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling Z…

But a luxury manufacturer like e.g. Audi gets to reuse engineering work from parent VW and sibling Lamborghini to improve their $100k car. Much of the comparative advantage of the Model S is due directly to the engineering differences of building an electric powertrain; they get to make different tradeoffs than BMW does in, say, an M5.

The real nutcutting time will come when an established brand decides to build a high-end electric (the BMW i8, for instance), where they get to combine their much more significant economies of scale with the advantages of an electric drivetrain.

EDIT: The i8 is a plug-in hybrid, actually, so it's really a worst of both worlds sort of deal. The point still stands as made, however.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#49

Post by comrade_ogilvy »

run4yourlives wrote: post #27
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

It is that easy, and also that difficult. Two bicycle mechanics in a small town game us the airplane, but there were a lot of smart people that tried to do just that before them and failed. It's easy because we only talk about the ones that had everything go right for them.

Right. Tesla going bankrupt would have been the least surprising thing to ever happen. This is news exactly because it is unexpected.

I would also suggest that, like the Wright brothers, Tesla had no choice but to make a number of long term focused decisions because doing anything else would obviously fail.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#50

Post by jfb »

enraged_camel wrote: post #41
jfb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But electric cars aren't a disruptive technology. The only thing that might qualify as disruptive about Tesla is their direct to customer sales model, and I have a hard time seeing how they'll get around the entrenched interests there. The Model S is by all accounts an excellent car, and I want one, but I am bearish on Tesla the company.

>>But electric cars aren't a disruptive technology. Of course they are. They work completely differently from ICE cars and even hybrids to solve the same problem (transportation). That's the definition of a disruptive technology.

Not at $100k.
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