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3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

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Re: 3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

#41

Post by rayiner »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25
rayiner wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'd rather support the economy of Wisconsin than the economy of Chengdu. I like people in Wisconsin, can't really relate to people in Chengdu, and then there is the whole militarily adverse repressive communist regime thing. Beyond that, I have no desire to contribute to the externalization of pollution, health and safety risks, etc, that come from exporting production overseas. I think globalization is utter…

" I like people in Wisconsin, can't really relate to people in Chengdu " I was raised multiculturally and have grown more cosmopolitan since leaving home, so I understand my reaction is a marginal one, but this emotion scared me. I am familiar with your comments on HN and so know you are an incredibly intelligent human being. Why, still, do you exclusively penalise the other party for unfamiliarity, which is a bilate…

> Why, still, do you exclusively penalise the other party for unfamiliarity, which is a bilateral function?

Because social relations aren't symmetric. Successful societies are built on: families, local communities, and national unity (in that order). This is nearly universal. Certainly, someone in Chengdu cares far more about his neighbors than he cares about me!

> Why are intranational and international wealth inequality seen as diametrically opposed subjects?

I view things that way because poor people in America are part of the same body politic as myself, while poor people in China are not. The well-being of people on the south side of Chicago or in the Bronx affects me directly. The well-being of people in China does not.

The ironic thing is that the Chinese wouldn't find my viewpoint curious. Of course your own community is more important than other peoples' communities, and your nation more important than other peoples' nations. It's a self-evident truth in Asian culture.

Re: 3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

#42

Post by rdl »

I sort of avoid food from China. Oddly, chemicals from China are ok, but I rationalize because they're in milligram quantities, so impurities are also relatively small, and they get GC/MS'd.

I also avoid software/security products from China and Chinese-controlled entities. To some extent, I'd like to include hardware, but that's essentially impossible. I avoid Huawei and ZTE at least, but I still buy Apple, Lenovo, etc.

I would probably not trust security software written by a Chinese citizen in the US who had extensive ongoing personal/family connections to China. I would use a game, and probably general purpose stuff. It makes me sad that this position is justified by the threat environment. I tend to feel the same way about most of Eastern Europe/Russia, too, although perhaps less acutely.

The horrible thing about all of this is that Chinese and fUSSR developers are some of the smartest/best in the world.

Re: 3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

#43

Post by rayiner »

pfedor wrote: post #36
rayiner wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'd rather support the economy of Wisconsin than the economy of Chengdu. I like people in Wisconsin, can't really relate to people in Chengdu, and then there is the whole militarily adverse repressive communist regime thing. Beyond that, I have no desire to contribute to the externalization of pollution, health and safety risks, etc, that come from exporting production overseas. I think globalization is utter…

I like people in Wisconsin, can't really relate to people in Chengdu The people in Wisconsin will be better off if they produce something at which their comparative advantage is the highest. You'd harm them, as well yourself and the Chinese people, by shifting the allocation of resources slightly away from optimal for all these parties.

I would like to believe that, but I really don't. I'm not convinced that people in Wisconsin are better off in the long run if we trade with China rather than bomb it (to set up two extremes). That is to say, I'm not convinced free trade is Pareto efficient.

Re: 3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

#44

Post by incision »

fotbr wrote: post #33

There are some things I will not buy if they're made in some countries, of which China is just one. There are other things that I don't care where in the world they were produced. There's a definite relationship between the length of time I expect to own or use a product, the country's reputation for products of that type, and which of the two categories it falls in.

>There's a definite relationship between the length of time I expect to own or use a product, the country's reputation for products of that type, and which of the two categories it falls in.

Same.

How I intend to use (entertainment vs work) the product and the implications of its failure (annoyance vs injury) factor as well.

Re: 3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

#46

Post by derefr »

rayiner wrote: post #41
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I like people in Wisconsin, can't really relate to people in Chengdu " I was raised multiculturally and have grown more cosmopolitan since leaving home, so I understand my reaction is a marginal one, but this emotion scared me. I am familiar with your comments on HN and so know you are an incredibly intelligent human being. Why, still, do you exclusively penalise the other party for unfamiliarity, which is a bilate…

> Why, still, do you exclusively penalise the other party for unfamiliarity, which is a bilateral function? Because social relations aren't symmetric. Successful societies are built on: families, local communities, and national unity (in that order). This is nearly universal. Certainly, someone in Chengdu cares far more about his neighbors than he cares about me! > Why are intranational and international wealth inequ…

> poor people in America are part of the same body politic as myself, while poor people in China are not.

...and you don't see that as the problem worth fixing?

I live in Canada, where we get copies of all the social-policy laws from the US forced upon us as treaties [to ensure Americans don't just drive up here for their marijuanas or what-have-you] with no ability to actually vote in the US elections that control these laws. This is just a mild case of a power imbalance that's much more pronounced in countries that rely on the US for much of their GDP (usually based entirely around exports.)

There's only one world economy, and it affects all of us, but only some of us are living in countries that get to affect it with each swing of local political sentiment. It would probably be beneficial to all of us--even you all in the US--for that to change.

Re: 3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

#47

Post by drucken »

Given the US's annual trade deficit with China is more than a quarter of a trillion dollars and growing every year by some $20 billion (i.e. an extra month's worth of trade balance per annum), surveys of this kind are not worth the pixels they are printed on.

Re: 3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

#48

Post by shirro »

Ownership doesn't bother me as much as quality control. Cheap stuff often compromises quality regardless of source. As much as possible I try not to buy food sourced from outside Australia or New Zealand as I don't trust the regulatory environments elsewhere and don't want to be eating European mystery meat or Chinese melamine. I don't really care about source so much if it is a phone or tv.

Re: 3 In 10 Americans Will Not Knowingly Buy Chinese-Owned Brands

#49

Post by pfedor »

rayiner wrote: post #43
pfedor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like people in Wisconsin, can't really relate to people in Chengdu The people in Wisconsin will be better off if they produce something at which their comparative advantage is the highest. You'd harm them, as well yourself and the Chinese people, by shifting the allocation of resources slightly away from optimal for all these parties.

I would like to believe that, but I really don't. I'm not convinced that people in Wisconsin are better off in the long run if we trade with China rather than bomb it (to set up two extremes). That is to say, I'm not convinced free trade is Pareto efficient.

Would you mind if I ask you to elaborate? I can think of two ways to read this

1. If the USA bombs China, and China fights back, that means a global war and global wars accelerate the progress of science and technology, therefore in the long run people in Wisconsin will be better off just like quite possibly they are better off now than they'd be in the alternative universe where World War II never happened (where they might not have satellite TV, GPS navigation, nuclear energy, computers etc.)

2. If the USA continues to trade with China, in a number of years China may become equally as powerful as USA or more and then China may choose to go to war with America and win.

Did you mean any of the two? I'm assuming the long run part is critical since in the short term it's fairly obvious that people in Wisconsin and everywhere would be worse off if the US bombed China.

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