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The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

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Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#41

Post by new299 »

daveasdf wrote: post #7
rockyleal wrote: post #4

I think there is a lot of sensationalism in the way this issue has been aproached. To inject data into the blockchain in this way is comparable (although not identical) to writing the same 'evil urls' in a dollar bill with a pen, and then passing it around. It is a problem that exists in a different layer than the currency, even if it is to some degree 'passed on' through the currency. Likewise, the solution (imho) l…

While you likely have a point that this is being sensationalised, the money analogy isn't quite accurate. The problem is that such "evil" messages can be broadcast globally without the ability to remove them. A dollar bill with a message on it can be taken out of circulation; the bitcoin blockchain can't be reset without major chaos ensuing.

Interesting the act of marking coins with messages is not new. In Ireland coins used to get marked with political messages from the UVF and others, I believe it was quite common for a time.

http://www.cointalk.com/t195082/

Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#42

Post by Xcelerate »

sneak wrote: post #28
Xcelerate wrote: post #3

I would think the solution to this problem is to somehow prove to the blockchain that the address was indeed produced by the SHA256 RIPEMD160 process. I would think mathematically there is some way to do this without revealing what it was you hashed. I mean, you can verify that you are who you say you are simply by using your private key to sign a message; I would think a comparable process would work for this. EDIT:…

> I would think the solution to this problem I see no problem here. Perhaps you could describe it?

I'm sorry. I don't understand your post.

Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#43

Post by TheEskimo »

I believe that there is an even more important practical issue.

What if someone manages to embed something very much like the EICER string[0] in it? How many people do you think would use the bitcoin client on windows if their AV automatically deleted the blockchain as it downloaded in a misguided attempt to protect them?

Of course, first we have to know if this is possible at all. Does anyone know if there's either a) 20 bytes with a very high AV detection rate or b) some way to embed more than 20 bytes in a row in the block chain?

[0]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EICAR_test_file

Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#44

Post by killerpopiller »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #33

The flaw in all of this is that you're embedding 20 bytes in the blockchain. In order to do that, you have to choose an encoding method. In order to get the embedded data back out, you have to convey the encoding method and which block is encoded with it to the recipient. Which is totally pointless because if you can convey that to the recipient then you might as well just use the same communications method to convey…

one can also write/print information on currency bills and no one questioned bills.

Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#45

Post by ema »

siculars wrote: post #35

Of all the things threatening bitcoin this is by far the least worrisome. What if people start writing links to censored/illegal content on circulating dollar bills? Nothing, that's what.

You can just throw away a dollar bill with illegal stuff on it. You can not throw away the data of a bitcoin transaction without throwing away all transaction which occurred later on the block chain.

Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#46

Post by cjg »

tyre wrote: post #9

This will neither bring bitcoin down or change it forever. Any information contained in those bytes is just that: information. What can you say in 20 bytes that can have permanent, material damage to human beings? A wonderfully sensationalist title, but really nothing to back it up.

It's not limited to 20 bytes. If you can create a 20 byte message why not do that several times to make the message length you want.

Specifically, for the blockchain, a transaction sending bitcoins to multiple addresses would do it.

Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#47

Post by atmz »

killerpopiller wrote: post #44
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #33

The flaw in all of this is that you're embedding 20 bytes in the blockchain. In order to do that, you have to choose an encoding method. In order to get the embedded data back out, you have to convey the encoding method and which block is encoded with it to the recipient. Which is totally pointless because if you can convey that to the recipient then you might as well just use the same communications method to convey…

one can also write/print information on currency bills and no one questioned bills.

Seriously? This is analogous to writing information of the plates used to print currency/every bill in the country, not scribbling a note onto a twenty. You're either a troll or you haven't read the post.

Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#49

Post by testing12341234 »

rockyleal wrote: post #32
hobs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of taking down the link, I think he means on the server it is on, not remove it from the blockchain.

yep thats what i meant. i'm sorry he/she got so upset whith my analogy somehow. sheesh!

The concern here is not that a URL is embedded in the block chain, but an actual resource itself. Obviously a URL can be removed, but if the raw data is encoded in the block chain, it cannot be removed. Some people are balking at the fact that you can only encode 20 bytes at a time. However, it's already a reality that a multi-part message[0] has been embedded in to the block chain.

So the real concern becomes, what happens when someone encodes something illegal in the block chain. As a trivial example, what happens when some sort of copyrighted material is embedded in the block chain. Can a country's court prevent it's citizens from participating in the bitcoin transactions as they hold a copy of the illegal material?

So the call is for a system whereby we bypass any legality issues by ensuring that encoding information in this way is not possible.

Is it an overreaction? Maybe it is, but since there may be real legal consequences to letting it continue, it seems prudent to put steps in place that prevent or hamper this possibility. Particularly as it has already been proven[0] that system has been used to store data in larger quantities.

[0] http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=BUB3dygQ

Re: The Flaw that May Bring Down Bitcoin or Change it Forever

#50

Post by andr3w321 »

Can someone post the command to create these messages or at least tell me what portion of the transaction this is being stored under? I am curious. My chain is a bit out of date, but I was able to generate the messages http://pastebin.com/wdpF4L4k

~/.bitcoin/blocks $ ls | xargs strings -n 20 | tee ~/Downloads/hiddenblockchain.txt

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_Calls...

Are they just sending coins to an invalid address (their string)?

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