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Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

theatlantic.com

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Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#41

Post by stretchwithme »

jwcooper wrote: post #11
mseebach wrote: post #5

The problem with stimulus spending in a place like Spain is that someone will have to lend them the money to spend. They either have to charge pretty high interest (which exacerbates Spain's already high deficit) or give a discount on the interest, such that it no longer reflects the risk the lender is taking. Most anti-austerity calls seem to suggest the latter, which basically amounts to redistribution from those c…

Germany isn't completely innocent here though either, even though it can look like they were frugal during the boom years. From Michael Pettis [1]: The strength of the German economy in recent years has largely to do with its export success. But for Germany to run a large current account surplus – the consequence I would argue of domestic policies aimed at suppressing consumption and subsidizing production – Spain an…

Those who borrow a lot must import a lot.

Those who produce more than they consume export what they do not consume.

Its simple physics.

To produce more than you use is a virtue. Germans are hardly to blame for their virtues.

I guess their failure was in lending to those without the means to pay back.

Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#42

Post by gijjk »

skylan_q wrote: post #30
robryan wrote: post #17

What the is the precedent for austerity? What countries have used it successfully to get out of recession and improve unemployment?

What the is the precedent for austerity? To have enough money left behind to pay the bills. What countries have used it successfully to get out of recession and improve unemployment? This worked in the (now seemingly ancient) past. Governments were a much smaller portion of the economy and taxes were much lower to begin with. These days, up to 50% of people can be employed by the government. When governments get that…

"precedent" means "past experience", not "abstract theory".

macroeconomics != microeconomics.

http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html

Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#44

Post by martythemaniak »

auctiontheory wrote: post #29
lolcraft wrote: post #25

I don't know why journalists, when writing about economics, invariably pick the least adequate people to be interviewed. Some time ago, there was a feature about unemployment for college graduates in the US... which talked about a woman with a dance degree. Now it's about a fucking cani [1] whose major accomplishment in life is pasting some rubber and metal together, earning 1200 undeserved euros a month. Before that…

What, pray tell, is a "chav"?

Ali G

Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#45

Post by PKop »

robryan wrote: post #17

What the is the precedent for austerity? What countries have used it successfully to get out of recession and improve unemployment?

Latvia and Estonia have had some success relative to other European economies:

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/12/13/estonia-path-to-...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100558455 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/08/estonia-latvia-e... https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/estonia-and...

(Of course there's debate over the particulars..)

Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#46

Post by PKop »

Afforess wrote: post #13
krugmanlol wrote: post #10

And we still think krugman is a god.

Krugman has been against the austerity in Europe from the start. So Krugman was right all along.

So called austerity has nothing to do with it.

And..

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2012/12/13/estonia-path-to-...

Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#47

Post by AnthonyMouse »

barking wrote: post #28
dade_ wrote: post #18

It's called bankruptcy. I'd get on it. Austerity is going to start civil wars at this rate. Oh yeah, and next time, don't bail out banks run by sociopaths.

This week the Irish government who now unwillingly own a huge chunk of bank of Ireland said it could do nothing about the chief executive's generous salary. This despite further losses at the bank. Meanwhile further cuts in the rest of the economy.

The executive compensation thing is a red herring. People keep talking about it because of the manifest unfairness of allowing these people to wreck the economy and still take home 100 times what their victims do, but reducing their compensation wouldn't bring back any jobs. The problem is that a million dollars is a huge amount of money for an individual and a drop in the ocean for a government or a bank. Taking the money from them to try to undo what they've done wouldn't make the slightest dent, so all it would do is to punish them. And if that's what you're after then stop with pussyfooting around and just put them in prison already.

Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#48

Post by jorgeortiz85 »

mseebach wrote: post #5

The problem with stimulus spending in a place like Spain is that someone will have to lend them the money to spend. They either have to charge pretty high interest (which exacerbates Spain's already high deficit) or give a discount on the interest, such that it no longer reflects the risk the lender is taking. Most anti-austerity calls seem to suggest the latter, which basically amounts to redistribution from those c…

Have we totally forgotten Keynes? My spending is your income. The resources of an economy (in this case, many of Spain's workers) are lying idle. The entire country would be wealthier if they were put to work.

Further, I don't know what you mean by "easy living", but Spain was more fiscally responsible than even Germany before the crisis. Spain's deficits are not the result of irresponsible borrowing and spending (as in Greece), but rather of a collapsed economy because the investment money (mostly German, etc) that flooded the country before the crisis evaporated just as quickly after the crisis.

Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#49

Post by jiggy2011 »

auctiontheory wrote: post #29
lolcraft wrote: post #25

I don't know why journalists, when writing about economics, invariably pick the least adequate people to be interviewed. Some time ago, there was a feature about unemployment for college graduates in the US... which talked about a woman with a dance degree. Now it's about a fucking cani [1] whose major accomplishment in life is pasting some rubber and metal together, earning 1200 undeserved euros a month. Before that…

What, pray tell, is a "chav"?

As hilariously parodied by an amateur filmmaker. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNaCHXrnr9U

Re: Spain Is Beyond Doomed: Unemployment Charts

#50

Post by nhebb »

jwcooper wrote: post #11
mseebach wrote: post #5

The problem with stimulus spending in a place like Spain is that someone will have to lend them the money to spend. They either have to charge pretty high interest (which exacerbates Spain's already high deficit) or give a discount on the interest, such that it no longer reflects the risk the lender is taking. Most anti-austerity calls seem to suggest the latter, which basically amounts to redistribution from those c…

Germany isn't completely innocent here though either, even though it can look like they were frugal during the boom years. From Michael Pettis [1]: The strength of the German economy in recent years has largely to do with its export success. But for Germany to run a large current account surplus – the consequence I would argue of domestic policies aimed at suppressing consumption and subsidizing production – Spain an…

Germany seems to be getting blamed for the economic problems in Spain and Greece, but when I read a line like this:

> The strength of the German economy in recent years has largely to do with its export success.

I think, well, at least Germany actually makes something. I'm not familiar with any major products or services coming out of Spain or Greece. Maybe it's the American in me, living a life inundated with advertising and branding messages, but when an economy is not based on agriculture, natural resources, or tourism, it seems logical that it should be known for something - preferably making something.

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