I thought tech mas about metocricity. Plus all the girls I know just want to be PMs.
Prime Ministers? Parlour Maids? Post Modernists?
Product Managers
Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
41–50 of 120 posts
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#42Negativity doesn't motivate, but litigation does, and so does bad press and public shaming. The carrot and the stick are both valid tools.
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#43I would like to note that the STEM gender gap is much lower among new immigrants students (particularly from Asia and Eastern Europe) than their US-born counterparts, at least anecdotally. And I think this biases me towards the non-negativity approach argued for in the article. Much of the data about lower STEM performance from females in the U.S. comes from 1970's and 1980's data, when females also took fewer courses advanced courses. By 2000, female high school students were taking calculus at the same rate as males, though still lagged behind in physics. [1]
Perceptions are generally not nuanced and often lag 10-15 years behind. If you take the interaction of gender and ethnicity into account, you actually see an interesting reversal at the 99th percentile for Asian Americans where there are where there are 1.37 F for every 1.25 M. There is another study that shows Asian females score higher on STEM subject exams when they had to write a short essay about being Asian prior to the exam, but scored lower when they had to write about being female. (I'll try to add the citation later when I find it.)
Overall, I think the macro strategy of making female role models more visible is an effective one, and may well pay off in the next decade or so. Another reasonable strategy may well involve immigration reform with a special eye towards people who have focused on STEM subjects. Perhaps extra H1B slots for techie females? (I haven't thought this one through yet, but it may be worth exploring.)
Side note: It is also interesting to note that there are a substantially higher percentage of female Iranian mathematicians, and some of those mathematicians have noted that some of this is due to the cultural perception that highly theoretical pursuits (including theoretical computer science and theoretical physics) are not "too masculine" and are less likely to be dissuaded from pursuing the field.
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#44The goal of getting women into tech should be to equalize the gender ratio of the people who actually are in tech to that of the people who want to be in tech. That's the real balance that we need to reach for -- and unlike what many people seem to think, this ratio is not necessarily 50%.
50% is an easy first order approximation. Better approximations are great, but I see not obvious winner for a better approximation whose error bounds do not include 50% and has or is likely to gain significant mindshare.
"Easy first order approximations" are good starting points, yes.
We've started at that point many years ago; we should be trying to refine our easy first-order approximations instead of living with them forever.
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#45I only skimmed the article, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the article mistake correlation for causation big time? Students were asked to choose a topic, what if students who choose to write about values just don't care about other people's opinion, and thus perform better at it?
What evidence is there to point to a causal relationship?
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Anyone who believes that women inherently do worse in STEM subjects needs to be called out, in the most negative of terms. No one should say it, period. Outside of a university context, I would agree with you. Statements like this are the reason tenure is still needed in a university setting. No axiom should be sacred if we genuinely care about understanding the world and making the world a better place for everyone…
Outside of a university context, I would agree with you. So non-academics don't have the right to an inquiring mind? Also, what other lines of inquiry should be forbidden?
Non-academics have a fairly well documented penchant for discrimination and ethnic violence.
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#47I only skimmed the article, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the article mistake correlation for causation big time ? Students were asked to choose a topic, what if students who choose to write about values just don't care about other people's opinion, and thus perform better at it? What evidence is there to point to a causal relationship?
The students were assigned to one of two groups. Each group was given the same list of values. One group was asked to write about the one most important to them. The other group (the control group) was asked to write about the least important one to them and why someone else might find it important.
They were asked to choose a value, not a topic.
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#48I only skimmed the article, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the article mistake correlation for causation big time ? Students were asked to choose a topic, what if students who choose to write about values just don't care about other people's opinion, and thus perform better at it? What evidence is there to point to a causal relationship?
The students were assigned to one of two groups. Each group was given the same list of values. One group was asked to write about the one most important to them. The other group (the control group) was asked to write about the least important one to them and why someone else might find it important. They were asked to choose a value, not a topic.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. The wording makes it sound like they got to choose both.
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you think this ratio is currently around 25%? Do you think it's because women are inherently much less interested in tech? Or do you think it's because our society imposes stereotypes and values on women, and gives very "macho" impressions (often based in reality) about what work in tech is like, which leads women who would otherwise want to study and work in tech not want to? Fixing the culture of tech and th…
It's quite likely and the conclusion of this Norwegian documentary (well worth watching if only to see Sacha Baron Cohen smarter brother ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjernevask ) You can think of it in terms of Maslow's Pyramid. Societies at the top of the pyramid are filled with individuals that no longer need to take the highest paying jobs, but can now take jobs that uniquely fulfill their interests and desires.…
Sacha Baron Cohen smarter brother
If you're referring to Simon, the psychological researcher, that would be his cousin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Baron-Cohen#Personal_life...
Re: Stop complaining about the lack of women in tech
#50As someone who studied psychology before coming to tech, this phenomenon is fairly well documented. If you want, you can have a look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat
I think it matches up well with what was discussed in this blog post.