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If I Made Another Monkey Island...

grumpygamer.com

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Re: If I Made Another Monkey Island...

#41
post #35

I hope no one minds if I hijack to ask: What are some really good MODERN adventure games, along the lines of MI or the Space Quests? Besides the Two Guys' Kickstarter campaign, I mean...

The Walking Dead game was selected by Polygon as game of the year: http://www.polygon.com/2013/1/11/3863618/game-of-the-year-20... Not a bad accolade given the creative games that have come out (FTL, my personal pick, was Polygon's #6)

It's fun, but a rather different type of game.

Classic Adventure games are a cross between a puzzle game and a story - often using inventory or area switches to get past..

Walking Dead instead used an illusion of choice as it's core mechanic. It focuses on story more, and it works well, but it's not identical.

That said, TellTale's Sam and Max games and Tales of Money island are highly reminiscent of such old school works, as is Machinarium and quite a few others.

Re: If I Made Another Monkey Island...

#43

I hope no one minds if I hijack to ask: What are some really good MODERN adventure games, along the lines of MI or the Space Quests? Besides the Two Guys' Kickstarter campaign, I mean...

Seconded - I've found and played some of the King's Quest remakes by ADG and Infamous Adventures, then started wondering if there are more recent games along these lines.

Lots! Check out http://www.adventuregamers.com/ - They have reviews frequently.

If you're in a hurry, try their top 100 list, at http://www.adventuregamers.com/articles/view/18643

Re: If I Made Another Monkey Island...

#44
post #29

For the people going on and on about Kickstarter and crowd funding, note point #11: "The only way I would or could make another Monkey Island is if I owned the IP" This seems more like a post to get the masses exited and perhaps help him get a license for or ownership of the Monkey Island franchise. I hope he's successful, I was a big fan of the first two games (never got to play the 3rd). I'd certainly buy whatever…

Isn't it actually relatively possible now for him to secure the IP rights from Disney? With LucasArts disbanded, they've made it clear they intend to license the IP to other developers.

Re: If I Made Another Monkey Island...

#45

I have no less respect for Ron than I did back in the 90s, but I think that sometimes the veterans lose sight of what made their old games great (and this of course, is just my opinion). He wants keep the retro aesthetic, which is good, but then wants to include things like DOF and glows...which can technically be done with a palette, but I don't think this is what he is getting at, and could potentially destroy the…

I think one of the things he said is telling and gives useful perspective - they wanted to do more with the visuals, but were stuck with what was possible in 1990. We shouldn't elevate retro pixel art to some perfect art form. It's unlikely to be what the original artists intended, rather it was what they had to accept.

Re: If I Made Another Monkey Island...

#46

I have no less respect for Ron than I did back in the 90s, but I think that sometimes the veterans lose sight of what made their old games great (and this of course, is just my opinion). He wants keep the retro aesthetic, which is good, but then wants to include things like DOF and glows...which can technically be done with a palette, but I don't think this is what he is getting at, and could potentially destroy the…

I think you lost sight of what made those games great. Certainly not how they looked. Getting more skilled artists on the job, with a fresh perspective on the world, would be awesome.

Re: If I Made Another Monkey Island...

#48
Point Eleven is awesome!!

Eleven - The only way I would or could make another Monkey Island is if I owned the IP. I've spent too much of my life creating and making things other people own. Not only would I allow you to make Monkey Island fan games, but I would encourage it. Label them as such, respect the world and the characters and don't claim they are canon. Of course, once the lawyers get ahold of that last sentence it will be seven pages long.

edit: Thanks!

Re: If I Made Another Monkey Island...

#49
post #36

I have no less respect for Ron than I did back in the 90s, but I think that sometimes the veterans lose sight of what made their old games great (and this of course, is just my opinion). He wants keep the retro aesthetic, which is good, but then wants to include things like DOF and glows...which can technically be done with a palette, but I don't think this is what he is getting at, and could potentially destroy the…

> He wants to use speech instead of text While the no-talkie and partial talkie DotT are great, full-talkie DotT is absolutely awesome. > He wants keep the retro aesthetic, which is good, but then wants to include things like DOF and glows...which can technically be done with a palette, but I don't think this is what he is getting at, and could potentially destroy the rigid palettization that makes pixel art what it…

The voice version of DotT is indeed awesome. My favourite example of voice acting in adventure game that you don't want to click through. Too many games rely on this "ask 23 inquiring questions picked from a list" in a way that becomes really boring, with swathes of dialogue to get through.

(Even worse, in my opinion, are those that require that you delve into a certain part of the dialogue tree in order to get an item or otherwise open up something in the game, which means you have to go through the entire dialogue tree even some of the questions seem uninteresting and you don't want to go through with it. DotT did have a few of those, if I remember correctly.)

I agree about the retro pixel art. A retro style just to capture the essence of a golden age is, in my opinion, philosophically harmful; it quickly becomes annoying. There are some games that sort of redeem themselves: "Superbrothers: Sword + Sorcery", which uses ultra-low-rez graphics blown up to full size combined with fluid animation, is pretty good, although I wound the glib, self-referential tone of the game to be a bit obnoxious. Then there are Wadjet Eye games (like Gemini Rue and Primordia), which use some kind of SCUMM-like, really retro engine, and graphics that are something like 320x200, again blown up to full size, but without any modern animation wizardry. The games are so good that it works, but you do get the sense that the time of this kind of game is, and should be, over.

While I loved the zany style of DotT, I never liked the exaggerated "French" drawing style of Monkey Island 3 [1]. Monkey Island 4 was just awful, and the new Monkey Island episodes are downright creepy in its empty-eyed-doll animated characters, and the "enhanced" remake again does a kind of Disney-style makeover that doesn't quite fit. (Among other things the animation has gone from wonderfully zany to just plain. Watch how they animate talking people [3], it's hilarious.) (Of course, part of the problem with MI3-4 and later was that they turned Guybrush from a likeable, sort of innocent hero into an annoying, clueless, condescending moron somewhere between Chris O'Donnell and Chris Elliot. I don't know if it was the voice, or the hair, or whatever, probably a combination of them. It didn't work for me. It wasn't Guybrush.)

A more recent game that creates a cozy and charming, yet contemporary and technologically up-to-date style is Machinarium. Crisp high-rez graphics, charming animation, fun story, pretty much perfect in every way. That's the way to go, I think.

[1] http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-O8op_6zSEYQ/UBDrWkuhwiI/AAAAAAAAAG...

[2] http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/100/1008507/tales-...

[3] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9eJHotWoDQ

Re: If I Made Another Monkey Island...

#50

Is SCUMM really better than Lua?

No. I've used SCUMM, was the core systems engineer on Grim, and founded Telltale. I'm very familiar with both. The spirit of SCUMM is very much alive, but SCUMM is a system, not just a language. Lua runs circles around SCUMM as a language (SCUMM didn't support >8bit numeric types till Monkey3!), but as a game development system SCUMM was really cool. There's much that Unreal, Unity, etc could learn from it, but "running circles around Lua" is (ahem) hyperbole.
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