AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company • Hacker News Board

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#41

Post by crazygringo » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 5:40 PM UTC

I personally don't care what AppGratis does, whether it's good or bad, because, as far as I understand it, that's not what any of the "outrage" was all about.

It's the fact that a popular app, downloaded millions of times, existing for years, can suddenly be yanked by Apple, without any kind of reasonable "due process", or even reasonable warning. At a whim.

It's the arbitrariness of it, and the fact that it could happen to any developer, that's scary. Talking about whether or not AppGratis is a good/bad company is a complete distraction from the part that actually matters.

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#42

Post by nsxwolf » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 5:56 PM UTC

AppGratis might indeed be shady, but I don't understand the strategy of banning this entire app category from the store.

It is, after all, how they obtained their new App Store (Chomp acquisition). Why not sit back and let people create better app stores, and when you see the next revolutionary one, acquire it?

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#43

Post by stickfigure » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 5:57 PM UTC

In the first corner: 12 million users who voluntarily installed an app and can voluntarily uninstall it at any time if they don't like it.

In the second corner: One blowhard with a blog.

It seems pretty obvious who has credibility in this fight.

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#44

Post by Irregardless » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 5:59 PM UTC

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #39

Irregardless wrote: post #25

This story isn't adding up so far. > But sources close to [Apple] say it was more than a little troubled that AppGratis was pushing a business model that appeared to favor developers with the financial means to pay for exposure. http://allthingsd.com/20130408/confirmed-apple-kicks-appgrat... That's the closest thing I can find to a "confirmation" that AppGratis was accepting cash in exchange for a higher rank in thei…

“That's the closest thing I can find to a "confirmation" that AppGratis was accepting cash in exchange for a higher rank in their app.” For what it’s worth, in a previous HN thread, several users reported having received offers from AppGratis: “We were told $3 per install or $100k flat rate for 1 day.”[1] “I was also quoted a flat fee of $100k”[2] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5519881 [2] https://news.ycom…

Wow, that's quite a fortune they'd be raking in if people are actually paying $100,000 per day for promotion.

I agree with most people that paid app promotions are almost universally bad, but the selective enforcement of trivial guidelines by Apple is still disturbing.

There's no better way to enact complete control over a population than to make sure they're all in violation of at least one of your obscure rules at any given time. Then you can ruin any of them just for looking at you funny, all while hiding behind the guise of "regulations".

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#45

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 6:02 PM UTC

LinaLauneBaer wrote: post #13

I am the developer of Store News ( http://store-news-app.com ) a iOS/OS X app that shows the best deals in the Mac/iOS app store. Several ad companies contacted me and offered money for a good position in my app. I always declined because thinking about it made me feel bad. When this whole AppGratis thing came up a few days ago I had an interesting discussion about that with a friend of mine who is a lawyer. He told…

Looks like you are in violation of the rules. Better prepare a plan-B.

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#46

Post by idunno246 » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 6:10 PM UTC

Irregardless wrote: post #44

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“That's the closest thing I can find to a "confirmation" that AppGratis was accepting cash in exchange for a higher rank in their app.” For what it’s worth, in a previous HN thread, several users reported having received offers from AppGratis: “We were told $3 per install or $100k flat rate for 1 day.”[1] “I was also quoted a flat fee of $100k”[2] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5519881 [2] https://news.ycom…

Wow, that's quite a fortune they'd be raking in if people are actually paying $100,000 per day for promotion. I agree with most people that paid app promotions are almost universally bad, but the selective enforcement of trivial guidelines by Apple is still disturbing. There's no better way to enact complete control over a population than to make sure they're all in violation of at least one of your obscure rules at…

The sad part is it's worth it. The app gratis users are crap, but charting gets you lots of highly qualified users, and if your app is decent you will make that money back. This is no different than botting was last year, except the people are presumably real.

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#47

Post by anoncow » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 6:17 PM UTC

>Google’s job is to make sure the top results are the best results possible.

So all that AppGratis had to do was make sure the apps they promoted were not crappy. Review the submitted apps and factor in (genuine) votes by end-users. This way they would have added value to the ecosystem.

If Apple/Google banned such an app from their appstore, I would have been pissed.

But I understand. It is their marketplace. They make the rules. There is no free market and no democracy. Those were just ideals, long forgotten and never to be seen again.

I would continue typing and go into a rant on how the Appstore is a monopoly. But I know it isn't. And even an oligopoly doesn't make me happy.

(I haven't used AppGratis.)

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#48

Post by lnanek2 » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 6:20 PM UTC

It's true that you pay them and they send out a push message advertising your app as their daily deal to their users. I'm not sure if that's black hat, though. It's pretty standard marketing. You can pay amazon similarly to be on the front page of the amazon app store. I do think it is against app store guidelines all the same. Those are pretty clear you can't use push messages to promote other apps.

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#49

Post by 2pasc » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 6:23 PM UTC

ebbv wrote: post #36

2pasc wrote: post #14

I am ashamed by some of the reactions here (appart from jacquesm which offers a balanced one) AppGratis is a media, and like all media, it runs on advertising. The quality of apps promoted is shown in the fact that many apps stayed high in the ranking after the promotion and most apps (95%+) never paid to be featured by AppGratis. There was a cost - the cost of giving away an app with in App purchase credits or what…

> AppGratis is a media, and like all media, it runs on advertising. In most media the advertising and the content are separate things and clearly demarcated. That's the problem that's being highlighted here. AppGratis' content was its advertising. Ostensible media which is being paid for positive reviews/highlighting of subjects has always been viewed as unethical. I don't know how much of AppGratis' highlighted apps…

AppGratis sponsored content was marked as Sponsored on the screen advertising the app, or by being called "Discovery App of the Day" (vs. Deal).

Re: AppGratis Is Nothing More Than A Black Hat Marketing Company

#50

Post by WiseWeasel » Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 6:24 PM UTC

ketralnis wrote: post #33

Irregardless wrote: post #25

This story isn't adding up so far. > But sources close to [Apple] say it was more than a little troubled that AppGratis was pushing a business model that appeared to favor developers with the financial means to pay for exposure. http://allthingsd.com/20130408/confirmed-apple-kicks-appgrat... That's the closest thing I can find to a "confirmation" that AppGratis was accepting cash in exchange for a higher rank in thei…

> Apps cannot use Push Notifications to send advertising, promotions, or direct marketing of any kind. They do a very poor job of enforcing this. Around Christmas about every app I have sent me a "I'm still here!" push notification around that time advertising itself. And every zynga game I've purchased (a habit I've discontinued) does this both for itself and for other zynga games a few times a month.

I'm just wondering why you would allow a game to send notifications in the first place; you were given the choice on first run.